Discussion:
PAP is a communist party
(too old to reply)
JMS
2003-07-29 10:30:12 UTC
Permalink
For all intent and purpose the PAP
is a communist party.
Its' structure and setup is patterned
after that of the Communist Party.
It has a selective cadre system. The cadre
will then elect the CEC.
The reason why Harry and his gang
decided on this was because it is the
best protection against infiltration by
outsiders esp by the communist. Remember
in the 60's 70's Harry fought a big battle
with the communist.
This structure may have served the PAP
well in the past but it is now a major
hindrance to not only the PAP but also
Singapore. It is stiffling the evolution of
the PAP into a modern party in tune
with the aspirations of the people in
these modern time. This is exactly why
the PAP is having great problem getting
talented young people to join its' rank.
The PAP must evolve into a more
democratic party for its' own good and
that of Singapore.
If not they might as well renamed themselves
Communist Party of Singapore.
What a load of crap. As far as I'm aware, all political parties vote for
their leader. I see you post from Australia, Just look at the Labor party
who has a caucus who vote for their leader. Some years ago that same caucus
voted out Bob Hawke who was the existing Prime Minister at the time and
voted in Paul Keating.

You call yourself 'truth'. Perhaps you should consider changing your name to
'crap'
truth
2003-07-29 11:37:47 UTC
Permalink
Before you start calling others crap
you have to make sure you know what
you are talking about.

Any Australian can apply to join any political
parties in Australia save the Communist Party (which
is legal here.)
It is the member of the party branch who select
the candidate to stand for election and those
elected to parliament will then chose the leader. This is
real democracy at work not phoney democracy like that
partice by the pap.

Answer me these questions :

1. Can any Singaporean join the pap as a member ?

2. Did the ordinary member of the pap voted for the CEC ? If not who voted ?

3. Did the ordinary member chose the candidate to
stand for election ? If not who chose ?

4. How many cadre members are there in the pap
since its founding and now ?

5. If answer to 4 is less than 2,000. Do you consider such a party to be
broad base or elitist ?

6. Do you still think the pap is a democratic party ?
Post by JMS
For all intent and purpose the PAP
is a communist party.
Its' structure and setup is patterned
after that of the Communist Party.
It has a selective cadre system. The cadre
will then elect the CEC.
The reason why Harry and his gang
decided on this was because it is the
best protection against infiltration by
outsiders esp by the communist. Remember
in the 60's 70's Harry fought a big battle
with the communist.
This structure may have served the PAP
well in the past but it is now a major
hindrance to not only the PAP but also
Singapore. It is stiffling the evolution of
the PAP into a modern party in tune
with the aspirations of the people in
these modern time. This is exactly why
the PAP is having great problem getting
talented young people to join its' rank.
The PAP must evolve into a more
democratic party for its' own good and
that of Singapore.
If not they might as well renamed themselves
Communist Party of Singapore.
What a load of crap. As far as I'm aware, all political parties vote for
their leader. I see you post from Australia, Just look at the Labor party
who has a caucus who vote for their leader. Some years ago that same caucus
voted out Bob Hawke who was the existing Prime Minister at the time and
voted in Paul Keating.
You call yourself 'truth'. Perhaps you should consider changing your name to
'crap'
truth
2003-07-30 13:48:59 UTC
Permalink
You betray your ignorance and stupidity thru
your posting.

First, the people of Peoples Republic of China are
free to come and go. Don't you see the hundreds and
thousands of Mainland Chinese in Singapore. Foreigners
are also free to come and go in China. Even little boys
know this and if you don't then please stop posting
nonsence here. Go to a pap maintained website.

Second, there are more private companies in Communist
China than Singapore.

Third, not everyone in Mainland China is a member of
the Chinese Communist Party.

For your political education the reasons why I said
the pap is more of a communist part than a democratic
party is because :

First, it's organisational structure is exactly the same as
that of the Communist Party of China. It operates a
cadre system. There are slighly over a 1,000 cadre members in the pap. These
cadre are secretively selected
and invited to join. The pap also has ordinary members
who do all the dirty works of the party but has got no voting rights or say
in how the party is run. It is the cadre who elects the CEC which
effectively runs the party. Candidates for pap MP are hand pick by the CEC.
So it is a very elitish select group that make all the big decisions in
party. Same with Communist Party of China.

So please don't compare the pap with the democratic
parties in Australia. These democratic parties put the pap
to shame in the way ordinary members can influence the way the party is run.
They are more responsive to the wishes of the people unlike the pap who's
attitude is the
boss knows best, just do what I told you to.

The only difference between the pap and the Communist Party is that the pap
don't protect the workers. The pap protect only the big boss and his chosen
elites. Of course the Communist Party of China is deviating from the
original form because the collapse of the Soviet Union shows that Communism
cannot last in its original form.

Learn this lesson well and stop posting rubbish.
Post by truth
Before you start calling others crap
you have to make sure you know what
you are talking about.
Any Australian can apply to join any political
parties in Australia save the Communist Party (which
is legal here.)
It is the member of the party branch who select
the candidate to stand for election and those
elected to parliament will then chose the leader. This is
real democracy at work not phoney democracy like that
partice by the pap.
1. Can any Singaporean join the pap as a member ?
In a communist system everyone is expected to become a card carrying
communist. This is not the case in Singapore so why do you brand it
communist?
Post by truth
2. Did the ordinary member of the pap voted for the CEC ? If not who
voted
?
Regardless, why do you liken this to a communist system when clearly it is
not?
Post by truth
3. Did the ordinary member chose the candidate to
stand for election ? If not who chose ?
4. How many cadre members are there in the pap
since its founding and now ?
And how is this like a communist system?
Post by truth
5. If answer to 4 is less than 2,000. Do you consider such a party to be
broad base or elitist ?
?
Well it seems you are insinuating that it is elitist which clearly is the
very different to a communist sysem.
Post by truth
6. Do you still think the pap is a democratic party ?
You should not look at any political party or any company or any
organisation for that matter as being a democracy as there is certainly
some
autocracy in all of these organisations. What you should look at is what
they have implemented which is a democracy.
Can you come and go from Singapore freely? Yes. You can't do that in a
communist country.
Is there private enterprise in Singapore? Yes. There isn't in a communist
country.
You have absolutely no idea what a communist country is and what it is
like
to live in such a place. Because if you did, then you wouln't post the
carap
you did.
JMS
2003-07-31 11:33:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by truth
You betray your ignorance and stupidity thru
your posting.
First, the people of Peoples Republic of China are
free to come and go. Don't you see the hundreds and
thousands of Mainland Chinese in Singapore. Foreigners
are also free to come and go in China. Even little boys
know this and if you don't then please stop posting
nonsence here. Go to a pap maintained website.
Yes of course. I guess all those people who were shot trying to escape
across the Berlin wall from East Germany to West Germany were really a
figment of someone's imagination. And of course let's not forget those
trying to escape North Korea or those in Hungary. I'll also let my father
who escaped a communist country know that he really could have just received
a passport and leave of his own free will. He realy didn't have to escape at
all.

And my wife who lived in a communist country was allowed to come and go as
she pleased. You live in the twilight zone.
Post by truth
Second, there are more private companies in Communist
China than Singapore.
Yes and of course all of these so called private companies are owned by the
government or government related .
Post by truth
Third, not everyone in Mainland China is a member of
the Chinese Communist Party.
And those that don't usually find themselves without careers and sent to
gulag's.
Post by truth
For your political education the reasons why I said
the pap is more of a communist part than a democratic
First, it's organisational structure is exactly the same as
that of the Communist Party of China. It operates a
cadre system. There are slighly over a 1,000 cadre members in the pap. These
cadre are secretively selected
and invited to join. The pap also has ordinary members
who do all the dirty works of the party but has got no voting rights or say
in how the party is run. It is the cadre who elects the CEC which
effectively runs the party. Candidates for pap MP are hand pick by the CEC.
So it is a very elitish select group that make all the big decisions in
party. Same with Communist Party of China.
Then of course all party's are like the communist party if you take that
logic. WHat makes a party a communist part or a democratic party or
whatever, is not the way it is setup rather its ideaology and policis it
implements.
Post by truth
So please don't compare the pap with the democratic
parties in Australia. These democratic parties put the pap
to shame in the way ordinary members can influence the way the party is run.
They are more responsive to the wishes of the people unlike the pap who's
attitude is the
boss knows best, just do what I told you to.
SO you can compare the PAP party to a communist party but I'm not allowed to
compare the PAP party to one in Australia. Sounds to me like you are a
communist forcing your ideaology onto others.
Post by truth
The only difference between the pap and the Communist Party is that the pap
don't protect the workers. The pap protect only the big boss and his chosen
elites. Of course the Communist Party of China is deviating from the
original form because the collapse of the Soviet Union shows that Communism
cannot last in its original form.
You seem to have much admiration for the Chinese communists. My suggestion
would be for you to leave Australia and go live in China.
Post by truth
Learn this lesson well and stop posting rubbish.
Speaking to a mirror are you?
Post by truth
Post by truth
Before you start calling others crap
you have to make sure you know what
you are talking about.
Any Australian can apply to join any political
parties in Australia save the Communist Party (which
is legal here.)
It is the member of the party branch who select
the candidate to stand for election and those
elected to parliament will then chose the leader. This is
real democracy at work not phoney democracy like that
partice by the pap.
1. Can any Singaporean join the pap as a member ?
In a communist system everyone is expected to become a card carrying
communist. This is not the case in Singapore so why do you brand it
communist?
Post by truth
2. Did the ordinary member of the pap voted for the CEC ? If not who
voted
?
Regardless, why do you liken this to a communist system when clearly it is
not?
Post by truth
3. Did the ordinary member chose the candidate to
stand for election ? If not who chose ?
4. How many cadre members are there in the pap
since its founding and now ?
And how is this like a communist system?
Post by truth
5. If answer to 4 is less than 2,000. Do you consider such a party to be
broad base or elitist ?
?
Well it seems you are insinuating that it is elitist which clearly is the
very different to a communist sysem.
Post by truth
6. Do you still think the pap is a democratic party ?
You should not look at any political party or any company or any
organisation for that matter as being a democracy as there is certainly
some
autocracy in all of these organisations. What you should look at is what
they have implemented which is a democracy.
Can you come and go from Singapore freely? Yes. You can't do that in a
communist country.
Is there private enterprise in Singapore? Yes. There isn't in a communist
country.
You have absolutely no idea what a communist country is and what it is
like
to live in such a place. Because if you did, then you wouln't post the
carap
you did.
clip
2003-07-31 16:41:28 UTC
Permalink
In a communist system everyone is expected to become a card carrying
communist. This is not the case in Singapore so why do you brand it
communist?
Fool is that how a country is being considered communist? And do all
Chinese carry a card moron?
Steve Sundberg
2003-08-01 06:45:17 UTC
Permalink
As can be seen by your post, it is you that is the fool. Please learn to
read and understand English. Did I mention that everyone does carry a card
or did I say that it is expected they carry a card?
In a communist system everyone is expected to become a card carrying
communist. This is not the case in Singapore so why do you brand it
communist?
With that statement, you appear to make the assumption that NOT
becoming a card-carrying Party is not an option in communist
countries. Au contraire. Communist party membership was, and still is,
limited to only a small percentage of the population. Not everyone is
expected to become a member, nor is it even possible for everyone to
become a member.

Therefore, someone can make the statement that Singapore is a
"communist" country and not be wholly incorrect. (Given the PAP's
historic Social-Democrat leanings, it's closer to truth than you might
otherwise believe.) PAP memberships are given; they are conferred.
Party membership isn't just handed out to anyone who wants one.
And of course, not all Chinese live in China do they?
That is neither here nor there. If they are Chinese citizens living
overseas, the same rules apply to them wrt party membership. Many
Chinese students studying overseas are not themselves party members,
but have a family member or two who are. That family is being granted
opportunities billions of other Chinese have no hope of ever receiving
simply because they are not members of the CCP.

On the other hand, a Canadian citizen of Chinese heritage could care
less about any communist party membership.
JMS
2003-08-01 13:12:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Sundberg
As can be seen by your post, it is you that is the fool. Please learn to
read and understand English. Did I mention that everyone does carry a card
or did I say that it is expected they carry a card?
In a communist system everyone is expected to become a card carrying
communist. This is not the case in Singapore so why do you brand it
communist?
With that statement, you appear to make the assumption that NOT
becoming a card-carrying Party is not an option in communist
countries. Au contraire. Communist party membership was, and still is,
limited to only a small percentage of the population. Not everyone is
expected to become a member, nor is it even possible for everyone to
become a member.
No, this is not the case. I do not imply that it is NOT an option, rather it
is something that is expected. As an example, my wife and her family were
constantly encouraged to join directly and indirectly through school and
other community activities. They never did and perhaps to some extent
suffered as a result.

As for the Communist Party of China any Chinese who has reached the age of
18, accepts the Party's Program and Constitution and is willing to join and
work actively in one of the Party organizations, carry out the Party's
decisions and pay membership dues regularly, may apply for membership of the
CPC.
Post by Steve Sundberg
Therefore, someone can make the statement that Singapore is a
"communist" country and not be wholly incorrect. (Given the PAP's
historic Social-Democrat leanings, it's closer to truth than you might
otherwise believe.) PAP memberships are given; they are conferred.
Party membership isn't just handed out to anyone who wants one.
And of course, not all Chinese live in China do they?
I was referring to ethnicity, not citizenship. And you are correct, it is
neither here nor there and that was the point that I was making.
Post by Steve Sundberg
That is neither here nor there. If they are Chinese citizens living
overseas, the same rules apply to them wrt party membership. Many
Chinese students studying overseas are not themselves party members,
but have a family member or two who are. That family is being granted
opportunities billions of other Chinese have no hope of ever receiving
simply because they are not members of the CCP.
On the other hand, a Canadian citizen of Chinese heritage could care
less about any communist party membership.
Steve Sundberg
2003-08-01 01:54:06 UTC
Permalink
In a communist system everyone is expected to become a card carrying
communist. This is not the case in Singapore so why do you brand it
communist?
Not all Russian citizens were Communist Party members. The same goes
for those citizens of China, Cuba, Vietnam, etc.

There is no requirement to join; in fact, being allowed to join gives
a party member certain benefits that other citizens do not enjoy.
Steve Sundberg
2003-08-01 06:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Accordfing to a Russian ship's captain I spoke to about a decade ago only
about 10% of the population in USSR were card carriers of the Party.
Of course card carriers invoke and are given privileges
Which is probably the same percentage in Singapore.
That 10% figure rings a bell. Isn't that the percentage of persons the
PAP said it could identify from among students as having "elite"
skills and intelligence, and which was used by them in the 1970's to
justify educational streaming? It more or less created a cadre of
modern-day Mandarins.
ardeedee
2003-08-01 07:17:29 UTC
Permalink
If I know scholars form less than 1 % of total cohort for any year but
overall PAP top creamers are in 10%.
Post by Steve Sundberg
Accordfing to a Russian ship's captain I spoke to about a decade ago only
about 10% of the population in USSR were card carriers of the Party.
Of course card carriers invoke and are given privileges
Which is probably the same percentage in Singapore.
That 10% figure rings a bell. Isn't that the percentage of persons the
PAP said it could identify from among students as having "elite"
skills and intelligence, and which was used by them in the 1970's to
justify educational streaming? It more or less created a cadre of
modern-day Mandarins.
LS
2003-07-29 11:40:09 UTC
Permalink
Communists fight for workers' interest. PAP does the opposite.
truth
2003-07-29 12:15:03 UTC
Permalink
You are dam right.

The pap is a party with a communist structure
but they fight for themselves and their chosen
elites. This is even worst than communism.The pap
is a communist party in a controlled capitalist
economy.
At least in communist society, everybody is
equal.
In communist society there is free medical and
state welfarism. People are taken care of from
cradle to grave.
Of course such a system cannot be sustained
for too long. That is why Communist Russia
collapsed. Everybody just want to take from the
system but don't want to work as all workers are
paid the same.
Post by LS
Communists fight for workers' interest. PAP does the opposite.
virgin
2003-07-29 13:45:51 UTC
Permalink
If Singapore is a Communist country then Cuba is paradise
For all intent and purpose the PAP
is a communist party.
Its' structure and setup is patterned
after that of the Communist Party.
It has a selective cadre system. The cadre
will then elect the CEC.
The reason why Harry and his gang
decided on this was because it is the
best protection against infiltration by
outsiders esp by the communist. Remember
in the 60's 70's Harry fought a big battle
with the communist.
This structure may have served the PAP
well in the past but it is now a major
hindrance to not only the PAP but also
Singapore. It is stiffling the evolution of
the PAP into a modern party in tune
with the aspirations of the people in
these modern time. This is exactly why
the PAP is having great problem getting
talented young people to join its' rank.
The PAP must evolve into a more
democratic party for its' own good and
that of Singapore.
If not they might as well renamed themselves
Communist Party of Singapore.
Zeitgeist
2003-07-30 02:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by virgin
If Singapore is a Communist country then Cuba is paradise
and North Korea is the Garden of Eden........
Where got fun? No meat to eat or play with!
The Bishop
2003-07-30 02:39:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by virgin
If Singapore is a Communist country then Cuba is paradise
and North Korea is the Garden of Eden........
I did not know the Bermuda Triangle is so close, which MRT station to
alight .... ?
///\\eXX
2003-07-30 16:24:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Bishop
Post by virgin
If Singapore is a Communist country then Cuba is paradise
and North Korea is the Garden of Eden........
I did not know the Bermuda Triangle is so close, which MRT station to
alight .... ?
Twilight Zone station.........on Circle Line
psycho*candy
2003-07-31 15:06:39 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:51:12 +0800, "Kilometric"
LKY built Singapore to be socialist state, and PAP is a socialist party.
Singapore is no democracy.
When government need to approve bar-top dancing and hiring gays, the
government is socialist.
No way. A socialist government is one that focuses on the welfare of
the people -- a minimum pay, free or affordable health care, free
education, things like that.
A govt that wants to control everything is authoritarian. That's not
the same as being socialist.
Steve Sundberg
2003-08-01 06:54:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by psycho*candy
On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:51:12 +0800, "Kilometric"
LKY built Singapore to be socialist state, and PAP is a socialist party.
Singapore is no democracy.
When government need to approve bar-top dancing and hiring gays, the
government is socialist.
No way. A socialist government is one that focuses on the welfare of
the people -- a minimum pay, free or affordable health care, free
education, things like that.
A govt that wants to control everything is authoritarian. That's not
the same as being socialist.
Well, then I guess the North Korean regime doesn't qualify as being
communist, either, no matter how much they protest they are true
Stalinists. <grin>
psycho*candy
2003-08-01 08:42:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Sundberg
Well, then I guess the North Korean regime doesn't qualify as being
communist, either, no matter how much they protest they are true
Stalinists. <grin>
Absolutely.
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...