Discussion:
Lawful for the GREAT PROPHET to divorce PREGNANT women
(too old to reply)
donie
2008-10-12 05:32:53 UTC
Permalink
- Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful for Muhammat to
divorce
his wives including pregnant women and also devilishly advocating to
HIRE the divorced wives to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on
payment basis?
===================

On Oct 3, 2:10 pm, ***@hotmail.com wrote:

Are you sure you got your facts right? In your
effort to twist facts you have somehow have kind
of twisted yourself with your bible as per deut24:1.
ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?
type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
and it come to pass that she find no favour in
his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
in her: then let him write her a bill of
divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
her out of his house.

In the actual case , you are talking about your bible.
Good , now we have a clueless christian in criticism
of his bible thinking it referred to Prophet Muhammad
(saw).

I have repeatly told you that you are clueless. Once
again you have slapped yourself with regards to wet
nursing. Even your bible has references to wet nursing
as 'mother' milk is highly prized and the biblical
characters were willing to pay for such.
ref :http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm
excerpt : '... For a Biblical example of this, see
Exodus 2:7-10, which I quote below ...'
'... Miriam offers to call "a nurse" for
the Egyptian princess. Darby translated
this as "a wet-nurse." The phrase in Hebrew
=========== cut of Sam's lengthy reply===

This is a typical way Sam avoid embarrassing qoranic passages (in this
case ATT TALAAQ 65:1-6).
Bauw Phe Sieng™
2008-10-12 06:49:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by donie
- Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful for Muhammat to
divorce
his wives including pregnant women and also devilishly advocating to
HIRE the divorced wives to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on
payment basis?
===================
Are you sure you got your facts right? In your
effort to twist facts you have somehow have kind
of twisted yourself with your bible as per deut24:1.
ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?
type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
and it come to pass that she find no favour in
his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
in her: then let him write her a bill of
divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
her out of his house.
In the actual case , you are talking about your bible.
Good , now we have a clueless christian in criticism
of his bible thinking it referred to Prophet Muhammad
(saw).
I have repeatly told you that you are clueless. Once
again you have slapped yourself with regards to wet
nursing. Even your bible has references to wet nursing
as 'mother' milk is highly prized and the biblical
characters were willing to pay for such.
ref :http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm
excerpt : '... For a Biblical example of this, see
Exodus 2:7-10, which I quote below ...'
'... Miriam offers to call "a nurse" for
the Egyptian princess. Darby translated
this as "a wet-nurse." The phrase in Hebrew
=========== cut of Sam's lengthy reply===
This is a typical way Sam avoid embarrassing qoranic passages (in this
case ATT TALAAQ 65:1-6).
well, if having sex with a 6 year old girl is so lawful for the

so called "great prophet", what's so big deal with divorcing

pregnant woman ???

not to mention that we are talking about

Islam and its stinky Syaria here

(if you know what I mean) .......................
achtung
2008-10-13 07:10:14 UTC
Permalink
do you agree with paedophiles priest?
Post by Bauw Phe Sieng™
 - Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful for Muhammat to
divorce
his wives including pregnant women and also devilishly advocating to
HIRE the divorced wives to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on
payment basis?
===================
Are you sure you got your facts right? In your
effort to twist facts you have somehow have kind
of twisted yourself with your bible as per deut24:1.
 ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?
type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
     and it come to pass that she find no favour in
     his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
     in her: then let him write her a bill of
     divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
     her out of his house.
 In the actual case , you are talking about your bible.
 Good , now we have a clueless christian in criticism
 of his bible thinking it referred to Prophet Muhammad
 (saw).
 I have repeatly told you that you are clueless. Once
 again you have slapped yourself with regards to wet
 nursing. Even your bible has references to wet nursing
 as 'mother' milk is highly prized and the biblical
 characters were willing to pay for such.
 ref :http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm
 excerpt : '... For a Biblical example of this, see
            Exodus 2:7-10, which I quote below ...'
           '... Miriam offers to call "a nurse" for
            the Egyptian princess. Darby translated
            this as "a wet-nurse." The phrase in Hebrew
=========== cut of Sam's lengthy reply===
This is a typical way Sam avoid embarrassing qoranic passages (in
this
case ATT TALAAQ 65:1-6).
well, if having sex with a 6 year old girl is so lawful for the
so called "great prophet", what's so big deal with divorcing
pregnant woman ???
not to mention that we are talking about
Islam and its stinky Syaria here
(if you know what I mean) .......................- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Bauw Phe Sieng™
2008-10-13 07:34:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by achtung
do you agree with paedophiles priest
unlike in Qoran and Hadidth, paedophiles are condemned in the Bible

that's why Pope addressed his apologies.

have you ever heard Alloh condemned or punished the so-called prophet

for what he had done (at his 50's!!!) to Aisha,

the 6 years old girl ?!

Not to mention that unlike mohammed who "established" the religion
Islam, those stupid priests are not any founding fathers of any
religion, they are just commoners.



Now, do you get my answer to that question of yours ??
Post by achtung
Post by Bauw Phe Sieng™
 - Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful for Muhammat to
divorce
his wives including pregnant women and also devilishly advocating to
HIRE the divorced wives to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on
payment basis?
==================
Are you sure you got your facts right? In your
effort to twist facts you have somehow have kind
of twisted yourself with your bible as per deut24:1.
 ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?
type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
     and it come to pass that she find no favour in
     his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
     in her: then let him write her a bill of
     divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
     her out of his house.
 In the actual case , you are talking about your bible.
 Good , now we have a clueless christian in criticism
 of his bible thinking it referred to Prophet Muhammad
 (saw).
 I have repeatly told you that you are clueless. Once
 again you have slapped yourself with regards to wet
 nursing. Even your bible has references to wet nursing
 as 'mother' milk is highly prized and the biblical
 characters were willing to pay for such.
 ref :http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm
 excerpt : '... For a Biblical example of this, see
            Exodus 2:7-10, which I quote below ...'
           '... Miriam offers to call "a nurse" for
            the Egyptian princess. Darby translated
            this as "a wet-nurse." The phrase in Hebrew
=========== cut of Sam's lengthy reply==
This is a typical way Sam avoid embarrassing qoranic passages (in
this
case ATT TALAAQ 65:1-6).
well, if having sex with a 6 year old girl is so lawful for the
so called "great prophet", what's so big deal with divorcing
pregnant woman ???
not to mention that we are talking about
Islam and its stinky Syaria here
(if you know what I mean) .......................- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
pg
2008-10-13 07:44:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bauw Phe Sieng™
Post by achtung
do you agree with paedophiles priest
unlike in Qoran and Hadidth, paedophiles are condemned in the Bible
that's why Pope addressed his apologies.
have you ever heard Alloh condemned or punished the so-called prophet
for what he had done (at his 50's!!!) to Aisha,
the 6 years old girl ?!
Not to mention that unlike mohammed who "established" the religion
Islam, those stupid priests are not any founding fathers of any
religion, they are just commoners.
Now, do you get my answer to that question of yours ??
Post by achtung
Post by Bauw Phe Sieng™
 - Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful for Muhammat to
divorce
his wives including pregnant women and also devilishly advocating
to
Post by achtung
Post by Bauw Phe Sieng™
HIRE the divorced wives to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on
payment basis?
==================
Are you sure you got your facts right? In your
effort to twist facts you have somehow have kind
of twisted yourself with your bible as per deut24:1.
 ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?
type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
     and it come to pass that she find no favour in
     his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
     in her: then let him write her a bill of
     divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
     her out of his house.
 In the actual case , you are talking about your bible.
 Good , now we have a clueless christian in criticism
 of his bible thinking it referred to Prophet Muhammad
 (saw).
 I have repeatly told you that you are clueless. Once
 again you have slapped yourself with regards to wet
 nursing. Even your bible has references to wet nursing
 as 'mother' milk is highly prized and the biblical
 characters were willing to pay for such.
 ref :http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm
 excerpt : '... For a Biblical example of this, see
            Exodus 2:7-10, which I quote below ...'
           '... Miriam offers to call "a nurse" for
            the Egyptian princess. Darby translated
            this as "a wet-nurse." The phrase in Hebrew
=========== cut of Sam's lengthy reply==
This is a typical way Sam avoid embarrassing qoranic passages (in
this
case ATT TALAAQ 65:1-6).
well, if having sex with a 6 year old girl is so lawful for the
so called "great prophet", what's so big deal with divorcing
pregnant woman ???
not to mention that we are talking about
Islam and its stinky Syaria here
(if you know what I mean) .......................- Hide quoted text
-
Post by achtung
Post by Bauw Phe Sieng™
- Show quoted text -
Actually, Aishah was married to that "Great Prophet" when she was six.
But that "Great Prophet" didn't fuck Aishah until she was nine.

Maybe that "Great Prophet" preferred "bigger pussy", or "more grown
pussy". Who knows?
Baow Keh Tek™
2008-10-13 13:52:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by pg
Maybe that "Great Prophet" preferred "bigger pussy", or "more grown
pussy". Who knows?
so this principle "the bigger the better" is applied here ??

in that case shall we suggest the "great prophet"

to rush visiting Texas ??

as we know "Everything is bigger in Texas" !

WAKAKAKAKAKAKKAKAKKAKAKAKAKAKAKKKKKK ...........
pg
2008-10-13 07:41:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bauw Phe Sieng™
 - Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful for Muhammat to
divorce
his wives including pregnant women and also devilishly advocating to
HIRE the divorced wives to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on
payment basis?
===================
Are you sure you got your facts right? In your
effort to twist facts you have somehow have kind
of twisted yourself with your bible as per deut24:1.
 ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?
type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
     and it come to pass that she find no favour in
     his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
     in her: then let him write her a bill of
     divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
     her out of his house.
 In the actual case , you are talking about your bible.
 Good , now we have a clueless christian in criticism
 of his bible thinking it referred to Prophet Muhammad
 (saw).
 I have repeatly told you that you are clueless. Once
 again you have slapped yourself with regards to wet
 nursing. Even your bible has references to wet nursing
 as 'mother' milk is highly prized and the biblical
 characters were willing to pay for such.
 ref :http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm
 excerpt : '... For a Biblical example of this, see
            Exodus 2:7-10, which I quote below ...'
           '... Miriam offers to call "a nurse" for
            the Egyptian princess. Darby translated
            this as "a wet-nurse." The phrase in Hebrew
=========== cut of Sam's lengthy reply===
This is a typical way Sam avoid embarrassing qoranic passages (in
this
case ATT TALAAQ 65:1-6).
well, if having sex with a 6 year old girl is so lawful for the
so called "great prophet", what's so big deal with divorcing
pregnant woman ???
not to mention that we are talking about
Islam and its stinky Syaria here
(if you know what I mean) .......................
Oh no !!

If the "Great Prophet" is allowed to fuck a 9 year old girl, then what
a "not-so-great-prophet" is allowed to do ??
Gwa Hok Kie™
2008-10-13 13:47:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by pg
Post by Bauw Phe Sieng™
 - Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful for Muhammat to
divorce
his wives including pregnant women and also devilishly advocating to
HIRE the divorced wives to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on
payment basis?
==================
Are you sure you got your facts right? In your
effort to twist facts you have somehow have kind
of twisted yourself with your bible as per deut24:1.
 ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?
type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
     and it come to pass that she find no favour in
     his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
     in her: then let him write her a bill of
     divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
     her out of his house.
 In the actual case , you are talking about your bible.
 Good , now we have a clueless christian in criticism
 of his bible thinking it referred to Prophet Muhammad
 (saw).
 I have repeatly told you that you are clueless. Once
 again you have slapped yourself with regards to wet
 nursing. Even your bible has references to wet nursing
 as 'mother' milk is highly prized and the biblical
 characters were willing to pay for such.
 ref :http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm
 excerpt : '... For a Biblical example of this, see
            Exodus 2:7-10, which I quote below ...'
           '... Miriam offers to call "a nurse" for
            the Egyptian princess. Darby translated
            this as "a wet-nurse." The phrase in Hebrew
=========== cut of Sam's lengthy reply==
This is a typical way Sam avoid embarrassing qoranic passages (in
this
case ATT TALAAQ 65:1-6).
well, if having sex with a 6 year old girl is so lawful for the
so called "great prophet", what's so big deal with divorcing
pregnant woman ???
not to mention that we are talking about
Islam and its stinky Syaria here
(if you know what I mean) .......................
Oh no !!
If the "Great Prophet" is allowed to fuck a 9 year old girl, then what
a "not-so-great-prophet" is allowed to do ??
too bad, this kind of "privileges" were
only granted & given to
the so-called prophet exclusively,
so DO NOT,repeat,DO NOT ..... envy him,
LOL

if you read Qoran you would
find lotta good "team-working
incidents between the prophet
and his always allowing Alloh

so, sorry pal its for the prophet only :(
Schen Xie Tiep™
2008-10-13 14:24:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by pg
Post by Bauw Phe Sieng™
 - Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful for Muhammat to
divorce
his wives including pregnant women and also devilishly advocating to
HIRE the divorced wives to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on
payment basis?
==================
Are you sure you got your facts right? In your
effort to twist facts you have somehow have kind
of twisted yourself with your bible as per deut24:1.
 ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?
type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
     and it come to pass that she find no favour in
     his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
     in her: then let him write her a bill of
     divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
     her out of his house.
 In the actual case , you are talking about your bible.
 Good , now we have a clueless christian in criticism
 of his bible thinking it referred to Prophet Muhammad
 (saw).
 I have repeatly told you that you are clueless. Once
 again you have slapped yourself with regards to wet
 nursing. Even your bible has references to wet nursing
 as 'mother' milk is highly prized and the biblical
 characters were willing to pay for such.
 ref :http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm
 excerpt : '... For a Biblical example of this, see
            Exodus 2:7-10, which I quote below ...'
           '... Miriam offers to call "a nurse" for
            the Egyptian princess. Darby translated
            this as "a wet-nurse." The phrase in Hebrew
=========== cut of Sam's lengthy reply==
This is a typical way Sam avoid embarrassing qoranic passages (in
this
case ATT TALAAQ 65:1-6).
well, if having sex with a 6 year old girl is so lawful for the
so called "great prophet", what's so big deal with divorcing
pregnant woman ???
not to mention that we are talking about
Islam and its stinky Syaria here
(if you know what I mean) .......................
Oh no !!
If the "Great Prophet" is allowed to fuck a 9 year old girl, then what
a "not-so-great-prophet" is allowed to do ??
what is haram for most other religions,

is halal to do for this

religion of adultery

check their Qoran and Hadidth
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-12 09:48:11 UTC
Permalink
 - Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful for Muhammat to
divorce
his wives including pregnant women and also devilishly advocating to
HIRE the divorced wives to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on
payment basis?
===================
Are you sure you got your facts right? In your
effort to twist facts you have somehow have kind
of twisted yourself with your bible as per deut24:1.
 ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?
type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
     and it come to pass that she find no favour in
     his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
     in her: then let him write her a bill of
     divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
     her out of his house.
 In the actual case , you are talking about your bible.
 Good , now we have a clueless christian in criticism
 of his bible thinking it referred to Prophet Muhammad
 (saw).
 I have repeatly told you that you are clueless. Once
 again you have slapped yourself with regards to wet
 nursing. Even your bible has references to wet nursing
 as 'mother' milk is highly prized and the biblical
 characters were willing to pay for such.
 ref :http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm
 excerpt : '... For a Biblical example of this, see
            Exodus 2:7-10, which I quote below ...'
           '... Miriam offers to call "a nurse" for
            the Egyptian princess. Darby translated
            this as "a wet-nurse." The phrase in Hebrew
=========== cut of Sam's lengthy reply===
This is a typical way Sam avoid embarrassing qoranic passages (in this
case ATT TALAAQ 65:1-6).
Ho ho ho , practicing deception again :
My post of oct8 , 8.26pm from thread 'proof?-2' :
******************
Look at you , a clueless christian running around in
circles chasing your backside. You should look into
the mirror and confirm that you are not nuts.

My question :
- did Prophet Muhammad (saw) ever divorced his wives?
yes or no
If yes , then you are living in a fantasy world as
you cannot grasp facts. If no , then you are again
arguing from conjectures and wild speculation. You
are not factual in your argument (as usual).

What do the verses mean? Simple its a guide line for
divorce. What is so difficult to understand?

Now you have this fixation with the phrase "pay
for their suckling service" ...

Let us look at the commentary of the said verses :
ref : http://www.quran-gateofislam.com/quran_surah_at_talaq.asp
6: You should keep divorced women in the same place
and in the same standard and style of living, as
you yourself live. Do not do or say anything
which would harass or torture them. And if they
are pregnant then you have to bear all expenses
till the termination of pregnancy. After the
delivery, if they suckle the baby for you (because
you cannot make some alternative arrangements
and with mutual consultation it is decided that
only 'she' should suckle the child even after
the divorce is final) then pay them for that. The
details of this arrangement should be worked out
by mutual consultation, according to norms. If
any or both of you find it difficult to resolve
this matter, then let some other woman suckle the
baby.

7: As regards fixing alimony for the women under
divorce proceedings, or for suckling the child,
you should let a wealthy man spend according to
his means; while let the one whose means are
limited spend in accordance with what Allah
Almighty has given him. Remember Allah Almighty
Law does not burden a human being beyond his
capacity. If the man runs into some financial
difficulty on account of this extra expenditure,
then relief can be provided according to Divine
Laws. (This aspect should also be kept in mind
when deciding the case).

ref : http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Talaq-(Nikah)
excerpt : '...Even if divorce separates a man from
his wife, he has to seek her help in caring
for the child or another female if the mother
agrees. He must pay for her expenses...'

ref : http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1311...
excerpt : '...Then, if she suckles, she has the right
to compensation for it. She is allowed to
enter into a contract with the father or
his representative in return for whatever
payment they agree to...'

The Quran scholars agree that the man must pay for
the divorced wives expenses or alimony. The key words
that appeared are : compensation , pay for expenses ,
alimony.

verse65:6
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style
as ye live, according to your means: Annoy them
not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry
(life in their wombs), then spend (your substance)
on them until they deliver their burden: and if
they suckle your (offspring), give them their
RECOMPENSE : and take mutual counsel together,
according to what is just and reasonable. And if
ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another
woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.

Definition of 'RECOMPENSE'
ref : http://aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/dictionary/recompense
excerpt : 1 a: to give something to by way of
compensation (as for a service rendered
or damage incurred)
b: to pay for2: to return in kind : requite

By definition via merriam-webster 'RECOMPENSE' is
COMPENSATION.

ref : http://www.aicpa.org/pubs/taxadv/online/ttaclin.htm
excerpt : '...Sec. 219(f)(1) defines the term
"compensation" for purposes of
contributions to IRAs. Included in the
definition is any amount includible in an
individual's gross income under Sec. 71,
which includes taxable alimony...'

By law referring to the 'individual retirement account'
(IRA) act , alimony is a form of compensation.

You have been refuted from 2 angles :
1. The Quran scholars agree that "pay for their
suckling service" is alimony as a form of
compensation.
2. Legally , RECOMPENSE (in verse65:6) mean
COMPENSATION as defined by merriam webster
dictionary , by law as defined by the
'individual retirement account (IRA)' mean
alimony.

Oops ! Got you again..... , try to do better the
next time. Are you going to run away , come back
later , harp on the same refuted issues and pretend
that nothing happened.

Question to you , you seem to disregard the commentary
to the Quran and insisted on your own 'version' of
the interpretation. Which scholarship are you? Al-azhar
or yemen or madinah? Wait , I know where exactly is
your scholarship - 'church of bullshit' ....

You can't even grasp the legal meaning (by law) of
compensation to be alimony. I find this extremely
appaling.
QS ATT TALAAQ 65:1 (Yusuf Ali)
O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed
periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear
God your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
(themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open
lewdness, those are limits set by God: and any who transgresses the
limits of God, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
perchance God will bring about thereafter some new situation.
Quote from you in your post of oct 5 , 9.53pm :
'...I would gladly give my response to Deut 24:1
parallel even in this thread, but I would want
to see your response first on your Allah's
particular law for Muhammat's divorce. Do you
endorse this law from your Allah?

Do you honor this CRUEL law? ...'

What has happened to your response to deut24:1?
Suddenly you have avoided this issue. I thought you
are one track minded and very focused. Issit that
you are now forced to eat your shoe as the humble
pie?

Lets review the comparative islamic and christian
laws of divorce and alimony.
deut24:1 which is as follows :
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
and it come to pass that she find no favour
in his eyes, because he hath found some
uncleanness in her: then let him write her a
bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand,
and send her out of his house.

Let us look at Eph6:4
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5182024
[4] And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to
wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and
admonition of the Lord.

ref : http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
from her husband – she must not take
his children, his property, his money.
Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
a violation of the commandment "thou
shalt not steal"...'

Let us compare divorce & child custody between islam
(as in Quran) and christianity (as in bible)

Islam Christianity
1. Custody of mother father
children (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony must no need
3. Divorce pregnant NO OK
wives
4. Rights to shared woman no rights
children

Looking at the summary , others and I who can
exercise logic and wisdom will surely prefer the
islamic (Quranic) law of divorce and child custody
as it much more equitable and just.

When you say the law is cruel - are you referring
to the biblical law of divorce and child custody?
Pretending to be confused on top of already being
clueless .... yeah?

Can you explain what do you mean by '...Allah makes
a SATANIC, as far as his divorced wives is concerned,
deal: "pay for their suckling service", or let other
women breastfeed in case no deal obtained from
the divorced wives...'?

If paying alimony to divorced wives is SATANIC by
your christian standards ,what is the value or
standard of you christians (as derived from your
bible) of of the case of divorce that
1. Father has absolute rights to the children as
per your bible
2. There is no need to pay alimony as per your
bible
3. Divorcing pregnant wives is OK as per your bible
4. Divorced woman has no rights to the children
as per your bible.

Is there anything LOWER than SATANIC in this case
for you christians with regards to divorce and
alimony as the values derived from your bible?
What about DOUBLE or TRIPLE SATANIC?

To mock and taunt you :

# of times you have been afraid of answering = 18

I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
afraid of textual criticism :
**********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
************

My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 27

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-12 13:57:01 UTC
Permalink
 - Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful for Muhammat to
divorce
his wives including pregnant women and also devilishly advocating to
HIRE the divorced wives to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on
payment basis?
===================
Are you sure you got your facts right? In your
effort to twist facts you have somehow have kind
of twisted yourself with your bible as per deut24:1.
 ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?
type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
     and it come to pass that she find no favour in
     his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
     in her: then let him write her a bill of
     divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
     her out of his house.
 In the actual case , you are talking about your bible.
 Good , now we have a clueless christian in criticism
 of his bible thinking it referred to Prophet Muhammad
 (saw).
 I have repeatly told you that you are clueless. Once
 again you have slapped yourself with regards to wet
 nursing. Even your bible has references to wet nursing
 as 'mother' milk is highly prized and the biblical
 characters were willing to pay for such.
 ref :http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm
 excerpt : '... For a Biblical example of this, see
            Exodus 2:7-10, which I quote below ...'
           '... Miriam offers to call "a nurse" for
            the Egyptian princess. Darby translated
            this as "a wet-nurse." The phrase in Hebrew
=========== cut of Sam's lengthy reply===
This is a typical way Sam avoid embarrassing qoranic passages (in this
case ATT TALAAQ 65:1-6).
           ******************
Look at you , a clueless christian running around in
circles chasing your backside. You should look into
the mirror and confirm that you are not nuts.
- did Prophet Muhammad (saw) ever divorced his wives?
  yes or no
If you have adequate reading comprehension you would understand that
my post is not talking about whether or not Muhammat's divorcing his
wives was taking place. I was questioning your misogynist Allah in
facilitating practically anything for Muhammat's pleasure. While such
cruel verses provide Muhammat ammunition to threaten his many wives to
be obedience, otherwise Allah will provide Muhammat better wives,
virgins and widows (see QS 66:4), can you imagine how would his wives
felt upon hearing such revelation?

I fail to see what sort of disobedience, dishonesty, disloyalty acted
upon by his wives, except when he took to bed Maryam the Copt, then
Hafsya's slave. While visiting his wife Hafsya, he took a liking at
Maryam and he got an idea to sent Hafsya to see her father Umar. Upon
her return Hafsya caught Muhammat and Maryam in the act. Naturally,
Hafsya went berserk. Although Muhammat eventually managed to calm her
down and to get Hafsya's commitment to keep the scandal a secret,
Hafsya share the incidence with Aiysa. And lo there came Allah rebuke
for Aysah and Hafsya in QS 66:1-4.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-13 06:59:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by donie
 - Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful for Muhammat to
divorce
his wives including pregnant women and also devilishly advocating to
HIRE the divorced wives to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on
payment basis?
===================
Are you sure you got your facts right? In your
effort to twist facts you have somehow have kind
of twisted yourself with your bible as per deut24:1.
 ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?
type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
     and it come to pass that she find no favour in
     his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
     in her: then let him write her a bill of
     divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
     her out of his house.
 In the actual case , you are talking about your bible.
 Good , now we have a clueless christian in criticism
 of his bible thinking it referred to Prophet Muhammad
 (saw).
 I have repeatly told you that you are clueless. Once
 again you have slapped yourself with regards to wet
 nursing. Even your bible has references to wet nursing
 as 'mother' milk is highly prized and the biblical
 characters were willing to pay for such.
 ref :http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm
 excerpt : '... For a Biblical example of this, see
            Exodus 2:7-10, which I quote below ...'
           '... Miriam offers to call "a nurse" for
            the Egyptian princess. Darby translated
            this as "a wet-nurse." The phrase in Hebrew
=========== cut of Sam's lengthy reply===
This is a typical way Sam avoid embarrassing qoranic passages (in this
case ATT TALAAQ 65:1-6).
           ******************
Look at you , a clueless christian running around in
circles chasing your backside. You should look into
the mirror and confirm that you are not nuts.
- did Prophet Muhammad (saw) ever divorced his wives?
  yes or no
If you have adequate reading comprehension you would understand that
my post is not talking about whether or not Muhammat's divorcing his
wives was taking place. I was questioning your misogynist Allah in
facilitating practically anything for Muhammat's pleasure. While such
cruel verses provide Muhammat ammunition to threaten his many wives to
be obedience, otherwise Allah will provide Muhammat better wives,
virgins and widows (see QS 66:4), can you imagine how would his wives
felt upon hearing such revelation?
 I fail to see what sort of disobedience, dishonesty, disloyalty acted
upon by his wives, except when he took to bed Maryam the Copt, then
Hafsya's slave. While visiting his wife Hafsya, he took a liking at
Maryam and he got an idea to sent Hafsya to see her father Umar. Upon
her return Hafsya caught Muhammat and Maryam in the act. Naturally,
Hafsya went berserk. Although Muhammat eventually managed to calm her
down and to get Hafsya's commitment to keep the scandal a secret,
Hafsya share the incidence with Aiysa. And lo there came Allah rebuke
for Aysah and Hafsya in QS 66:1-4.
The clueless christian is back being inconsistent
again (and again and again). In addition you are
fast becoming the king of repeating already refuted
arguments. Lets face it , you are clueless already.

I thought you boast of a one track mind , logical
and full of wisdom. Looks like the opposite yeah.
Look at the flip flop nature and the inconsistency
of your arguments. You jump from one topic to
another hoping that something will stick.

Your last post : '...This is a typical way Sam avoid
embarrassing qoranic passages (in this case ATT TALAAQ
65:1-6). When refuted on verses65:1-66 you again change
your stance. Typical flip flop argument from an
clueless christian.

Now you are talking about 'facilitating and threatening'
which in other words - bullshitting from your fantasy.
The question stall stand :
- did Prophet Muhammad (saw) ever divorced his wives?
yes or no
If yes , then you are living in a fantasy world as
you cannot grasp facts. If no , then you are again
arguing from conjectures and wild speculation. You
are not factual in your argument (as usual).

Verse65:4
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of
monthly courses, for them the prescribed period,
if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for
those who have no courses (it is the same): for
those who carry (life within their wombs), their
period is until they deliver their burdens: and
for those who fear Allah, He will make their
path easy.

Can you pinpoint to me where in the verse65:4 that
state of your claim - 'ammunition to threaten his
many wives to be obedience, otherwise Allah will
provide Muhammat better wives, virgins and widows
(see QS 66:4)'. Arguing from conjecture again (and
again and again).

The clueless christian and king of repeating already
refuted arguments as back again with his repeats.

ref : http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indonesia/browse_thread/thread/e5540b11f19e4f70/5b2a20346ad72fc2?q=proof%3F&lnk=nl&

Your post of aug26 , 6.33am from thread 'proof?' :
'...Muhammat took to become his wife the fairer and
beautiful one, Marry the Copt,....

My post of aug26 ,8.23pm in thread 'Proof?' :
- ' ....By accepting Mariyah, the Copt from Egypt,
as his wife, he formed a political alliance with
a king of great magnitude....'
Source: Islam In Focus by Hammudah Abdalati
p. 177-178

ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqawqis
excerpt : '.... Al-Muqawqis ordered that the letter
should be placed in an ivory casket,
to be kept safely in the government
treasury, and he sent the following
reply:
From Muqawqis
I read your letter and understood
what you have written. I know that
the coming of a Prophet is still due.
But I thought, he would be born in
Syria – I have treated your messenger
with respect and honor. I am sending
two maids for you as presents. These
maids belong to a very respectable
family amongst us. In addition I send
for you clothes and a Duldul (steed)
for riding.
May God bestow security on you....'

The documented proof (muqawis's letter) is still
available in turkey


In your post dated aug26 , 6.33am - you have admitted
that mary the copt married the prophet. Works by the
historians and scholars provided evidence of mary the
copt married the prophet.

How come you in your only fantasy came up with -
'...when he took to bed Maryam the Copt, then
Hafsya's slave. While visiting his wife Hafsya,
he took a liking at ...'

Are you arguing based on facts or bullshit (which you
usually do)?

See how simple it is to refute you ..... Again can you
pinpoint where is verses65:1-6 that Allah rebuked hafsa
and ayesha with the threat of divorce? You will run
away .... for sure.

To mock and taunt you :

# of times you have been afraid of answering = 19

I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
afraid of textual criticism :
**********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
************

My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 28

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-14 00:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Can you pinpoint to me where in the verse65:4 that
state of your claim - 'ammunition to threaten his
many wives to be obedience, otherwise Allah will
provide Muhammat better wives, virgins and widows
(see QS 66:4)'. Arguing from conjecture again (and
again and again).
You will find that very succinct if you read ATT TALAAQ 66:1-6,
provided you have improved your READING COMPREHENSION. You will see:

065:001 : O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
prescribed periods, .....
065:002 : Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, .....
065:003 : And He provides for him from (sources) he never could
imagine. ....
065:004 : Such of your women as ...... for those who carry (life
within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their
burdens: ....
065:005 : That is the Command of God, which He has sent down to
you: ......
065:006 : Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as ye
live, according to your means: Annoy them not, so as to restrict them.
And if they carry (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance)
on them until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle your
(offspring), give them their recompense: and take mutual counsel
together, according to what is just and reasonable. And if ye find
yourselves in difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child) on
the (father's) behalf.

If as you suggest Muhammat didn't divorce any of his wives, why would
your allah need to go all out to issue such revelation? If you don't
read that as additional ammunition for the GREAT PROPHET, what would
such misogynist, women oppressing verses serve? In the absence of your
interpretation, non-moslem readers would only assume that those verses
signify how quick your allah serve Muhammat's need. Now that Muhammat
was the only proclaimer of your allah's words, it is likely that
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-14 10:10:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Can you pinpoint to me where in the verse65:4 that
state of your claim - 'ammunition to threaten his
many wives to be obedience, otherwise Allah will
provide Muhammat better wives, virgins and widows
(see QS 66:4)'. Arguing from conjecture again (and
again and again).
You will find that very succinct if you read ATT TALAAQ 66:1-6,
You are running away again from the question to
prove your claim of verse65:4 as initially claimed
by you - '...provide Muhammat better wives, virgins
and widows (see QS 65:4)...' By the way , surah Talaq
is surah 65 ...

So where is it in verse65:4 of such?

Lets place the genuine and not truncated verses along
the ones that you present to support your deception :
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
Post by donie
065:001 :  O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
prescribed periods, .....
1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them
at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately),
their prescribed periods: And fear Allah your Lord:
and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall
they (themselves) leave, except in case they are
guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set
by Allah. and any who transgresses the limits of
Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou
knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about
thereafter some new situation.
Post by donie
065:002  : Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, .....
2. Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, either
take them back on equitable terms or part with them
on equitable terms; and take for witness two persons
from among you, endued with justice, and establish
the evidence (as) before Allah. Such is the
admonition given to him who believes in Allah and
the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever)
prepares a way out,
Post by donie
065:003   : And He provides for him from (sources) he never could
imagine. ....
3. And He provides for him from (sources) he never could
imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah,
sufficient is ((Allah)) for him. For Allah will
surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things
has Allah appointed a due proportion.
Post by donie
065:004   : Such of your women as ...... for those who carry (life
within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their
burdens: ....
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly
courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have
any doubts, is three months, and for those who have
no courses (it is the same): for those who carry
(life within their wombs), their period is until they
deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah,
He will make their path easy.
Post by donie
065:005   : That is the Command of God, which He has sent down to
you: ......
5. That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down
to you: and if any one fears Allah, He will remove
his ills, from him, and will enlarge his reward.
Post by donie
065:006  :  Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as ye
live, according to your means: Annoy them not, so as to restrict them.
And if they carry (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance)
on them until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle your
(offspring), give them their recompense: and take mutual counsel
together, according to what is just and reasonable. And if ye find
yourselves in difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child) on
the (father's) behalf.
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as
ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not,
so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in
their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them
until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle
your (offspring), give them their recompense: and
take mutual counsel together, according to what is
just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in
difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child)
on the (father's) behalf.
Post by donie
If as you suggest Muhammat didn't divorce any of his wives, why would
your allah need to go all out to issue such revelation? If you don't
read that as additional ammunition for the GREAT PROPHET, what would
such misogynist, women oppressing verses serve? In the absence of your
interpretation, non-moslem readers would only assume that those verses
signify how quick your allah serve Muhammat's need. Now that Muhammat
was the only proclaimer of your allah's words, it is likely that
You need to show historical proof or from the hadith
that the prophet had indeed divorced any of his wives.
You have the seerah by ibn ishaq , look it up and
see if you can find it.

Since the verse state '..o prophet...' you latched
on to that. Left you logic and wisdom by the
roadside again? If the prophet did not divorced any
of his wives , any body who can think will come to
the fact that these verses are the guidelines for
divorce .... simple isn't it?
ref : http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1308&Itemid=121
excerpt : '...Some said that the Messenger is the
subject of what is being sent ﴿as a
reminder﴾ because the Messenger is the
one that conveys the Dhikr. Ibn Jarir said
that what is correct is that the Messenger
explains the Dhikr...'

Can you pin point to me where in verse65:1-6 that is
oppressive to women? Looks like you are again pretending
to be confused by quoting the Quran in which you
actually mean your bible :

Lets review the comparative islamic and christian
laws of divorce and alimony.
deut24:1 which is as follows :
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
and it come to pass that she find no favour
in his eyes, because he hath found some
uncleanness in her: then let him write her a
bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand,
and send her out of his house.

Let us look at Eph6:4
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5182024
[4] And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to
wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and
admonition of the Lord.

ref : http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
from her husband – she must not take
his children, his property, his money.
Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
a violation of the commandment "thou
shalt not steal"...'

Let us compare divorce & child custody between islam
(as in Quran) and christianity (as in bible)

Islam Christianity
1. Custody of mother father
children (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony must no need
3. Divorce pregnant NO OK
wives
4. Rights to shared woman no rights
children

Looking at the summary , others and I who can
exercise logic and wisdom will surely prefer the
islamic (Quranic) law of divorce and child custody
as it much more equitable and just.

To mock and taunt you :

# of times you have been afraid of answering = 20

I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
afraid of textual criticism :
**********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
************

My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 29

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-15 03:56:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
You are running away again from the question to
prove your claim of verse65:4 as initially claimed
by you - '...provide Muhammat better wives, virgins
and widows (see QS 65:4)...' By the way , surah Talaq
is surah 65 ...
So where is it in verse65:4 of such?
Thanks for reminding me that Sura ATH TALAAQ is 65 not 66. You are
right the verses that rebuke Muhammat's wives particularly Hafsya and
Aiysah are not in ATH Talaaq but in the next Sura AT TAHRIM 66.

Here is Yusuf Ali's translation:

066:001: O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which God
has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But God
is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
066:002 God has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of
your oaths (in some cases): and God is your Protector, and He is Full
of Knowledge and Wisdom.
066:003 When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one
of his consorts, and she then divulged it (to another), and God made
it known to him, he confirmed part thereof and repudiated a part. Then
when he told her thereof, she said, "Who told thee this? "He said, "He
told me Who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things)."
066:004 If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so
inclined; But if ye back up each other against him, truly God is his
Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who
believe, - and furthermore, the angels - will back (him) up.
066:005 It may be, if he DIVORCED YOU (all), that God will give him
in exchange CONSORTS better than you, - who submit (their wills), who
believe, who are devout, who turn to God in repentance, who worship
(in humility), who travel (for Faith) and fast, - previously married
or VIRGINS. (uppercasing is mine).
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Lets place the genuine and not truncated verses along
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/ 65.htm
1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them
at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately),
and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall
they (themselves) leave, except in case they are
guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set
by Allah. and any who transgresses the limits of
Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou
knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about
thereafter some new situation.
2. Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, either
take them back on equitable terms or part with them
on equitable terms; and take for witness two persons
from among you, endued with justice, and establish
the evidence (as) before Allah. Such is the
admonition given to him who believes in Allah and
the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever)
prepares a way out,
3. And He provides for him from (sources) he never could
imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah,
sufficient is ((Allah)) for him. For Allah will
surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things
has Allah appointed a due proportion.
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly
courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have
any doubts, is three months, and for those who have
no courses (it is the same): for those who carry
(life within their wombs), their period is until they
deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah,
He will make their path easy.
5. That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down
to you: and if any one fears Allah, He will remove
his ills, from him, and will enlarge his reward.
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as
ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not,
so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in
their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them
until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle
your (offspring), give them their recompense: and
take mutual counsel together, according to what is
just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in
difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child)
on the (father's) behalf.
Post by donie
If as you suggest Muhammat didn't divorce any of his wives, why would
your allah need to go all out to issue such revelation? If you don't
read that as additional ammunition for the GREAT PROPHET, what would
such misogynist, women oppressing verses serve? In the absence of your
interpretation, non-moslem readers would only assume that those verses
signify how quick your allah serve Muhammat's need. Now that Muhammat
was the only proclaimer of your allah's words, it is likely that
You need to show historical proof or from the hadith
that the prophet had indeed divorced any of his wives.
You have the seerah by ibn ishaq , look it up and
see if you can find it.
I have responded to this issue earlier. Either you don't bother to
read or your reading comprehension is so POOR that you cannot even
catch the core point of the thread: "LAWFUL for the GREAT PROPHET to
divorce PREGNANT women." The issue here is the type of Allah that
Muhammat solely portrays thru the so called GLORIOUS qoranic
revelation. In this particular ATH Talaaq sura, Muhammat portrays a
HEARTLESS god, as far as women treatment is concerned. Muhammat can
divorce his wives (all of them, to be replaced with better widows and
virgins, AT Tahrim 66:1-5) including those PREGNANT. And by the IDDAH
time, when they deliver their babies, your heartless Allah suggest
Muhammat to hire them to suckle the babies now considered Muhammat'
property only.
achtung
2008-10-15 06:20:50 UTC
Permalink
you must have gone thru a traumatic period of your childhood
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
You are running away again from the question to
prove your claim of verse65:4 as initially claimed
by you - '...provide Muhammat better wives, virgins
and widows (see QS 65:4)...' By the way , surah Talaq
is surah 65 ...
So where is it in verse65:4 of such?
Thanks for reminding me that Sura ATH TALAAQ is 65 not 66. You are
right the verses that rebuke Muhammat's wives particularly Hafsya and
Aiysah are not in ATH Talaaq but in the next Sura AT TAHRIM 66.
066:001:  O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which God
has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But God
is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
066:002 God has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of
your oaths (in some cases): and God is your Protector, and He is Full
of Knowledge and Wisdom.
066:003     When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one
of his consorts, and she then divulged it (to another), and God made
it known to him, he confirmed part thereof and repudiated a part. Then
when he told her thereof, she said, "Who told thee this? "He said, "He
told me Who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things)."
066:004 If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so
inclined; But if ye back up each other against him, truly God is his
Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who
believe, - and furthermore, the angels - will back (him) up.
066:005         It may be, if he DIVORCED YOU (all), that God will give him
in exchange CONSORTS better than you, - who submit (their wills), who
believe, who are devout, who turn to God in repentance, who worship
(in humility), who travel (for Faith) and fast, - previously married
or VIRGINS. (uppercasing is mine).
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Lets place the genuine and not truncated verses along
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them
   at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately),
   and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall
   they (themselves) leave, except in case they are
   guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set
   by Allah. and any who transgresses the limits of
   Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou
   knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about
   thereafter some new situation.
2. Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, either
   take them back on equitable terms or part with them
   on equitable terms; and take for witness two persons
   from among you, endued with justice, and establish
   the evidence (as) before Allah. Such is the
   admonition given to him who believes in Allah and
   the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever)
   prepares a way out,
3. And He provides for him from (sources) he never could
   imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah,
   sufficient is ((Allah)) for him. For Allah will
   surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things
   has Allah appointed a due proportion.
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly
   courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have
   any doubts, is three months, and for those who have
   no courses (it is the same): for those who carry
   (life within their wombs), their period is until they
   deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah,
   He will make their path easy.
5. That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down
   to you: and if any one fears Allah, He will remove
   his ills, from him, and will enlarge his reward.
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as
   ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not,
   so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in
   their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them
   until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle
   your (offspring), give them their recompense: and
   take mutual counsel together, according to what is
   just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in
   difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child)
   on the (father's) behalf.
Post by donie
If as you suggest Muhammat didn't divorce any of his wives, why would
your allah need to go all out to issue such revelation? If you don't
read that as additional ammunition for the GREAT PROPHET, what would
such misogynist, women oppressing verses serve? In the absence of your
interpretation, non-moslem readers would only assume that those verses
signify how quick your allah serve Muhammat's need. Now that Muhammat
was the only proclaimer of your allah's words, it is likely that
You need to show historical proof or from the hadith
that the prophet had indeed divorced any of his wives.
You have the seerah by ibn ishaq , look it up and
see if you can find it.
I have responded to this issue earlier. Either you don't bother to
read or your reading comprehension is so POOR that you cannot even
catch the core point of the thread: "LAWFUL for the GREAT PROPHET to
divorce PREGNANT women."  The issue here is the type of Allah that
Muhammat solely portrays thru the so called GLORIOUS qoranic
revelation. In this particular ATH Talaaq sura, Muhammat portrays a
HEARTLESS god, as far as women treatment is concerned. Muhammat can
divorce his wives (all of them, to be replaced with better widows and
virgins, AT Tahrim 66:1-5) including those PREGNANT. And by the IDDAH
time, when they deliver their babies, your heartless Allah suggest
Muhammat to hire them to suckle the babies now considered Muhammat'
property only.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-15 08:45:48 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 15, 11:56 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Thanks for reminding me that Sura ATH TALAAQ is 65 not 66. You are
right the verses that rebuke Muhammat's wives particularly Hafsya and
Aiysah are not in ATH Talaaq but in the next Sura AT TAHRIM 66.
So you admit that you have been going around in
circles chasing your own backside - yes?
Post by donie
066:001:  O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which God
has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But God
is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
066:002 God has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of
your oaths (in some cases): and God is your Protector, and He is Full
of Knowledge and Wisdom.
066:003     When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one
of his consorts, and she then divulged it (to another), and God made
it known to him, he confirmed part thereof and repudiated a part. Then
when he told her thereof, she said, "Who told thee this? "He said, "He
told me Who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things)."
066:004 If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so
inclined; But if ye back up each other against him, truly God is his
Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who
believe, - and furthermore, the angels - will back (him) up.
066:005         It may be, if he DIVORCED YOU (all), that God will give him
in exchange CONSORTS better than you, - who submit (their wills), who
believe, who are devout, who turn to God in repentance, who worship
(in humility), who travel (for Faith) and fast, - previously married
or VIRGINS. (uppercasing is mine).
--snip--
Post by donie
I have responded to this issue earlier. Either you don't bother to
read or your reading comprehension is so POOR that you cannot even
catch the core point of the thread: "LAWFUL for the GREAT PROPHET to
divorce PREGNANT women."  The issue here is the type of Allah that
Muhammat solely portrays thru the so called GLORIOUS qoranic
revelation. In this particular ATH Talaaq sura, Muhammat portrays a
HEARTLESS god, as far as women treatment is concerned. Muhammat can
divorce his wives (all of them, to be replaced with better widows and
virgins, AT Tahrim 66:1-5) including those PREGNANT. And by the IDDAH
time, when they deliver their babies, your heartless Allah suggest
Muhammat to hire them to suckle the babies now considered Muhammat'
property only.
And your response has been very poor. This from a
person who claim of others to have comprehension
problems. The questions again :
1. Did the prophet ever divorced his wives?
2. What does '...It may be, if he ...' means in the
context of the verse?
If it has been lawful to divorce pregnant women , why
then verse65:4 of the prohibition to divorce pregnant
women? Your cluelessness is again being displayed. So
now the prophet is god issit? We are not talking about
your 'son of god' here. I think you are confused.

Your post of aug26 , 6.33am from thread 'proof?' :
'...Muhammat took to become his wife the fairer and
beautiful one, Marry the Copt,....

My post of aug26 ,8.23pm in thread 'Proof?' :
- ' ....By accepting Mariyah, the Copt from Egypt,
as his wife, he formed a political alliance with
a king of great magnitude....'
Source: Islam In Focus by Hammudah Abdalati
p. 177-178

ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqawqis
excerpt : '.... Al-Muqawqis ordered that the letter
should be placed in an ivory casket,
to be kept safely in the government
treasury, and he sent the following
reply:
From Muqawqis
I read your letter and understood
what you have written. I know that
the coming of a Prophet is still due.
But I thought, he would be born in
Syria – I have treated your messenger
with respect and honor. I am sending
two maids for you as presents. These
maids belong to a very respectable
family amongst us. In addition I send
for you clothes and a Duldul (steed)
for riding.
May God bestow security on you....'

The documented proof (muqawis's letter) is still
available in turkey

In your post dated aug26 , 6.33am - you have admitted
that mary the copt married the prophet. Works by the
historians and scholars provided evidence of mary the
copt married the prophet.

How come you in your only fantasy came up with -
'...when he took to bed Maryam the Copt, then
Hafsya's slave. While visiting his wife Hafsya,
he took a liking at ...'

Are you arguing based on facts or bullshit (which you
usually do)?

You have again contradicted yourself when you mentioned
pregnant women and iddah. That means the prohibition
to divorce pregnant women. You are going around in
circles.

Verse65:6 :
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as
ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not,
so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in
their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them
until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle
your (offspring), give them their recompense: and
take mutual counsel together, according to what is
just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in
difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child)
on the (father's) behalf.

What is the conditions for a wet nurse? Can you also
pinpoint where is it that states that the child is the
property of the prophet?

You sure you are not confused with your bible that
state that the child is the property of the father :

Let us look at Eph6:4
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5182024
[4] And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to
wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and
admonition of the Lord.

ref : http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
from her husband – she must not take
his children, his property, his money.
Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
a violation of the commandment "thou
shalt not steal"...'

The Quran and bible are different. Your issues are
from the bible.

So far what you have provided has been bullshit.
When questioned you avoid answering the question.
Coming from someone who has 'superior'
comprehension ....

To mock and taunt you :

# of times you have been afraid of answering = 21

I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
afraid of textual criticism :
**********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
************

My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 30

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
donie
2008-10-16 00:57:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by donie
Thanks for reminding me that Sura ATH TALAAQ is 65 not 66. You are
right the verses that rebuke Muhammat's wives particularly Hafsya and
Aiysah are not in ATH Talaaq but in the next Sura AT TAHRIM 66.
So you admit that you have been going around in
circles chasing your own backside - yes?
I admit I misquoted the number of your qoran verse on Allah's threat
to Muhammat's wives. Instead of AT Tahrim 66:4/5 I quoted 65:4
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
066:001:  O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which God
has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But God
is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
066:002 God has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of
your oaths (in some cases): and God is your Protector, and He is Full
of Knowledge and Wisdom.
066:003     When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one
of his consorts, and she then divulged it (to another), and God made
it known to him, he confirmed part thereof and repudiated a part. Then
when he told her thereof, she said, "Who told thee this? "He said, "He
told me Who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things)."
066:004 If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so
inclined; But if ye back up each other against him, truly God is his
Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who
believe, - and furthermore, the angels - will back (him) up.
066:005         It may be, if he DIVORCED YOU (all), that God will give him
in exchange CONSORTS better than you, - who submit (their wills), who
believe, who are devout, who turn to God in repentance, who worship
(in humility), who travel (for Faith) and fast, - previously married
or VIRGINS. (uppercasing is mine).
--snip--
Post by donie
I have responded to this issue earlier. Either you don't bother to
read or your reading comprehension is so POOR that you cannot even
catch the core point of the thread: "LAWFUL for the GREAT PROPHET to
divorce PREGNANT women."  The issue here is the type of Allah that
Muhammat solely portrays thru the so called GLORIOUS qoranic
revelation. In this particular ATH Talaaq sura, Muhammat portrays a
HEARTLESS god, as far as women treatment is concerned. Muhammat can
divorce his wives (all of them, to be replaced with better widows and
virgins, AT Tahrim 66:1-5) including those PREGNANT. And by the IDDAH
time, when they deliver their babies, your heartless Allah suggest
Muhammat to hire them to suckle the babies now considered Muhammat'
property only.
And your response has been very poor. This from a
person who claim of others to have comprehension
1. Did the prophet ever divorced his wives?
2. What does '...It may be, if he ...' means in the
   context of the verse?
I repeat the thread titled Lawful for GREAT PROPHET to divorce
pregnant women.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
If it has been lawful to divorce pregnant women , why
then verse65:4 of the prohibition to divorce pregnant
women? Your cluelessness is again being displayed. So
now the prophet is god issit? We are not talking about
your 'son of god' here. I think you are confused.
You'd better clarify this statement. Doesn't your 65:4 states: "..and
for those who have for those who carry (life within their wombs),
their period is until they deliver their burdens......"
Post by s***@hotmail.com
'...Muhammat took to become his wife the fairer and
 beautiful one, Marry the Copt,....
- ' ....By accepting Mariyah, the Copt from Egypt,
    as his wife, he formed a political alliance with
    a king of great magnitude....'
    Source: Islam In Focus by Hammudah Abdalati
    p. 177-178
ref :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqawqis
excerpt : '.... Al-Muqawqis ordered that the letter
                should be placed in an ivory casket,
                to be kept safely in the government
                treasury, and he sent the following
                From Muqawqis
                I read your letter and understood
                what you have written. I know that
                the coming of a Prophet is still due.
                But I thought, he would be born in
                Syria – I have treated your messenger
                with respect and honor. I am sending
                two maids for you as presents. These
                maids belong to a very respectable
                family amongst us. In addition I send
                for you clothes and a Duldul (steed)
                for riding.
                May God bestow security on you....'
The documented proof (muqawis's letter) is still
available in turkey
In your post dated aug26 , 6.33am - you have admitted
that mary the copt married the prophet. Works by the
historians and scholars provided evidence of mary the
copt married the prophet.
How come you in your only fantasy came up with -
'...when he took to bed Maryam the Copt, then
 Hafsya's slave. While visiting his wife Hafsya,
 he took a liking at ...'
Are you arguing based on facts or bullshit (which you
usually do)?
You have again contradicted yourself when you mentioned
pregnant women and iddah. That means the prohibition
to divorce pregnant women. You are going around in
circles.
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as
   ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not,
   so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in
   their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them
   until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle
   your (offspring), give them their recompense: and
   take mutual counsel together, according to what is
   just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in
   difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child)
   on the (father's) behalf.
What is the conditions for a wet nurse? Can you also
pinpoint where is it that states that the child is the
property of the prophet?
You sure you are not confused with your bible that
Let us look at Eph6:4
ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5182024
[4] And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to
    wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and
    admonition of the Lord.
ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
           Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
           from her husband – she must not take
           his children, his property, his money.
           Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
           a violation of the commandment "thou
           shalt not steal"...'
The Quran and bible are different. Your issues are
from the bible.
So far what you have provided has been bullshit.
When questioned you avoid answering the question.
Coming from someone who has 'superior'
comprehension ....
# of times you have been afraid of answering = 21
I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
         **********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
         ************
My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?
Count of you refusing to answer the question = 30
You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.
Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
I am not entertaining your attempt to side step from the thread.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-16 07:14:56 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 16, 8:57 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
So you admit that you have been going around in
circles chasing your own backside - yes?
I admit I misquoted the number of your qoran verse on Allah's threat
to Muhammat's wives. Instead of AT Tahrim 66:4/5 I quoted 65:4
In other words you are clueless and have been going
around in circles chasing your own backside. That
I can understand.

--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
I have responded to this issue earlier. Either you don't bother to
read or your reading comprehension is so POOR that you cannot even
catch the core point of the thread: "LAWFUL for the GREAT PROPHET to
divorce PREGNANT women."  The issue here is the type of Allah that
Muhammat solely portrays thru the so called GLORIOUS qoranic
revelation. In this particular ATH Talaaq sura, Muhammat portrays a
HEARTLESS god, as far as women treatment is concerned. Muhammat can
divorce his wives (all of them, to be replaced with better widows and
virgins, AT Tahrim 66:1-5) including those PREGNANT. And by the IDDAH
time, when they deliver their babies, your heartless Allah suggest
Muhammat to hire them to suckle the babies now considered Muhammat'
property only.
And your response has been very poor. This from a
person who claim of others to have comprehension
1. Did the prophet ever divorced his wives?
2. What does '...It may be, if he ...' means in the
   context of the verse?
I repeat the thread titled Lawful for GREAT PROPHET to divorce
pregnant women.
And the question is to the point :
The questions again -
1. Did the prophet ever divorced his wives?
2. What does '...It may be, if he ...' means in the
context of the verse?
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
If it has been lawful to divorce pregnant women , why
then verse65:4 of the prohibition to divorce pregnant
women? Your cluelessness is again being displayed. So
now the prophet is god issit? We are not talking about
your 'son of god' here. I think you are confused.
You'd better clarify this statement. Doesn't your 65:4 states: "..and
for those who have for those who carry (life within their wombs),
their period is until they deliver their burdens......"
Verses65:1 & 4
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them
at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately),
their prescribed periods: And fear Allah your Lord:
and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
(themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty
of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah.
and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does
verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new
situation.
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly
courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have
any doubts, is three months, and for those who have
no courses (it is the same): for those who carry
(life within their wombs), their period is until
they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear
Allah, He will make their path easy.


For a person with 'superior' comprehension , can you
pin point to me where it states of it being lawful
to divorce pregnant wives? Lets see what bull shit
will you put up.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
'...Muhammat took to become his wife the fairer and
 beautiful one, Marry the Copt,....
- ' ....By accepting Mariyah, the Copt from Egypt,
    as his wife, he formed a political alliance with
    a king of great magnitude....'
    Source: Islam In Focus by Hammudah Abdalati
    p. 177-178
ref :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqawqis
excerpt : '.... Al-Muqawqis ordered that the letter
                should be placed in an ivory casket,
                to be kept safely in the government
                treasury, and he sent the following
                From Muqawqis
                I read your letter and understood
                what you have written. I know that
                the coming of a Prophet is still due.
                But I thought, he would be born in
                Syria – I have treated your messenger
                with respect and honor. I am sending
                two maids for you as presents. These
                maids belong to a very respectable
                family amongst us. In addition I send
                for you clothes and a Duldul (steed)
                for riding.
                May God bestow security on you....'
The documented proof (muqawis's letter) is still
available in turkey
In your post dated aug26 , 6.33am - you have admitted
that mary the copt married the prophet. Works by the
historians and scholars provided evidence of mary the
copt married the prophet.
How come you in your only fantasy came up with -
'...when he took to bed Maryam the Copt, then
 Hafsya's slave. While visiting his wife Hafsya,
 he took a liking at ...'
Are you arguing based on facts or bullshit (which you
usually do)?
You have again contradicted yourself when you mentioned
pregnant women and iddah. That means the prohibition
to divorce pregnant women. You are going around in
circles.
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as
   ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not,
   so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in
   their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them
   until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle
   your (offspring), give them their recompense: and
   take mutual counsel together, according to what is
   just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in
   difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child)
   on the (father's) behalf.
What is the conditions for a wet nurse? Can you also
pinpoint where is it that states that the child is the
property of the prophet?
You sure you are not confused with your bible that
Let us look at Eph6:4
ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5182024
[4] And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to
    wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and
    admonition of the Lord.
ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
           Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
           from her husband – she must not take
           his children, his property, his money.
           Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
           a violation of the commandment "thou
           shalt not steal"...'
The Quran and bible are different. Your issues are
from the bible.
So far what you have provided has been bullshit.
When questioned you avoid answering the question.
Coming from someone who has 'superior'
comprehension ....
# of times you have been afraid of answering = 21
I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
         **********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
         ************
My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?
I am not entertaining your attempt to side step from the thread.
Your are exposing yourself of being clueless and
running around in circles chasing your backside.
The above is the response to your again empty
claim that the prophet slept with hafsah's slave
- mary the copt - whereas historically it has been
confirmed that hafsah did not own mary the copt
as a slave and you also contradicted yourself by
stating that mary married the prophet.

To mock and taunt you :

# of times you have been afraid of answering = 22

I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
afraid of textual criticism :
**********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
************

My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 30

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-16 15:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
So you admit that you have been going around in
circles chasing your own backside - yes?
I admit I misquoted the number of your qoran verse on Allah's threat
to Muhammat's wives. Instead of AT Tahrim 66:4/5 I quoted 65:4
In other words you are clueless and have been going
around in circles chasing your own backside. That
I can understand.
Your poor inference skill as shown above would not drive me to side
step the issue from the profoundly cruel and evil tendency of your
Allah in allowing Muhammat to divorce his wives including pregnant
women. And your Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal for the
divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment bases.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
I have responded to this issue earlier. Either you don't bother to
read or your reading comprehension is so POOR that you cannot even
catch the core point of the thread: "LAWFUL for the GREAT PROPHET to
divorce PREGNANT women."  The issue here is the type of Allah that
Muhammat solely portrays thru the so called GLORIOUS qoranic
revelation. In this particular ATH Talaaq sura, Muhammat portrays a
HEARTLESS god, as far as women treatment is concerned. Muhammat can
divorce his wives (all of them, to be replaced with better widows and
virgins, AT Tahrim 66:1-5) including those PREGNANT. And by the IDDAH
time, when they deliver their babies, your heartless Allah suggest
Muhammat to hire them to suckle the babies now considered Muhammat'
property only.
And your response has been very poor. This from a
person who claim of others to have comprehension
1. Did the prophet ever divorced his wives?
2. What does '...It may be, if he ...' means in the
   context of the verse?
I repeat the thread titled Lawful for GREAT PROPHET to divorce
pregnant women.
The questions again -
1. Did the prophet ever divorced his wives?
2. What does '...It may be, if he ...' means in the
   context of the verse?
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
If it has been lawful to divorce pregnant women , why
then verse65:4 of the prohibition to divorce pregnant
women? Your cluelessness is again being displayed. So
now the prophet is god issit? We are not talking about
your 'son of god' here. I think you are confused.
You'd better clarify this statement. Doesn't your 65:4 states: "..and
for those who have for those who carry (life within their wombs),
their period is until they deliver their burdens......"
Verses65:1 & 4
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them
   at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately),
   and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
   (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty
   of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah.
   and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does
   verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
   perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new
   situation.
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly
   courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have
   any doubts, is three months, and for those who have
   no courses (it is the same): for those who carry
   (life within their wombs), their period is until
   they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear
   Allah, He will make their path easy.
For a person with 'superior' comprehension , can you
pin point to me where it states of it being lawful
to divorce pregnant wives? Lets see what bull shit
will you put up.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
'...Muhammat took to become his wife the fairer and
 beautiful one, Marry the Copt,....
- ' ....By accepting Mariyah, the Copt from Egypt,
    as his wife, he formed a political alliance with
    a king of great magnitude....'
    Source: Islam In Focus by Hammudah Abdalati
    p. 177-178
ref :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqawqis
excerpt : '.... Al-Muqawqis ordered that the letter
                should be placed in an ivory casket,
                to be kept safely in the government
                treasury, and he sent the following
                From Muqawqis
                I read your letter and understood
                what you have written. I know that
                the coming of a Prophet is still due.
                But I thought, he would be born in
                Syria – I have treated your messenger
                with respect and honor. I am sending
                two maids for you as presents. These
                maids belong to a very respectable
                family amongst us. In addition I send
                for you clothes and a Duldul (steed)
                for riding.
                May God bestow security on you....'
The documented proof (muqawis's letter) is still
available in turkey
In your post dated aug26 , 6.33am - you have admitted
that mary the copt married the prophet. Works by the
historians and scholars provided evidence of mary the
copt married the prophet.
How come you in your only fantasy came up with -
'...when he took to bed Maryam the Copt, then
 Hafsya's slave. While visiting his wife Hafsya,
 he took a liking at ...'
Are you arguing based on facts or bullshit (which you
usually do)?
You have again contradicted yourself when you mentioned
pregnant women and iddah. That means the prohibition
to divorce pregnant women. You are going around in
circles.
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as
   ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not,
   so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in
   their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them
   until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle
   your (offspring), give them their recompense: and
   take mutual counsel together, according to what is
   just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in
   difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child)
   on the (father's) behalf.
What is the conditions for a wet nurse? Can you also
pinpoint where is it that states that the child is the
property of the prophet?
You sure you are not confused with your bible that
Let us look at Eph6:4
ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5182024
[4] And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to
    wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and
    admonition of the Lord.
ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
           Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
           from her husband – she must not take
           his children, his property, his money.
           Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
           a violation of the commandment "thou
           shalt not steal"...'
The Quran and bible are different. Your issues are
from the bible.
So far what you have provided has been bullshit.
When questioned you avoid answering the question.
Coming from someone who has 'superior'
comprehension ....
# of times you have been afraid of answering = 21
I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
         **********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
         ************
My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?
I am not entertaining your attempt to side step from the thread.
Your are exposing yourself of being clueless and
running around in circles chasing your backside.
The above is the response to your again empty
claim that the prophet slept with hafsah's slave
- mary the copt - whereas historically it has been
confirmed that hafsah did not own mary the copt
as a slave and you also contradicted yourself by
stating that mary married the prophet.
# of times you have been afraid of answering = 22
I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
         **********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
...
read more »
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-17 06:57:41 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 16, 11:46 pm, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
I admit I misquoted the number of your qoran verse on Allah's threat
to Muhammat's wives. Instead of AT Tahrim 66:4/5 I quoted 65:4
In other words you are clueless and have been going
around in circles chasing your own backside. That
I can understand.
Your poor inference skill as shown above would not drive me to side
step the issue from the profoundly cruel and evil tendency of your
Allah in allowing Muhammat to divorce his wives including pregnant
women. And your Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal for the
divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment bases.> --snip--
This is where you are at your best. You equivocate and
keep on repeating already refuted arguments.
Verse65:1 & 4
Verses65:1 & 4
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them
at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately),
their prescribed periods: And fear Allah your Lord:
and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
(themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty
of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah.
and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does
verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new
situation.
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly
courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have
any doubts, is three months, and for those who have
no courses (it is the same): for those who carry
(life within their wombs), their period is until
they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear
Allah, He will make their path easy.

For a person with 'superior' comprehension , can you
pin point to me where it states of it being lawful
to divorce pregnant wives? Lets see what bull shit
will you put up. You have been putting up a lot
lately.

I am not surprised that you do not even know of the
word 'ALIMONY'. This can be clearly seen with the
biblical verse of deut24:1 which is as follows :
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
and it come to pass that she find no favour
in his eyes, because he hath found some
uncleanness in her: then let him write her a
bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand,
and send her out of his house.

This meaning that if the man is to divorce the wife
, the wife gets NOTHING.

Islamic law = man divorce wife alimony is a must
for child maintenance. Divorcing
pregnant wife is a no.
Christian law = man divorce wife and NO NEED for
alimony. Pregnant wives can be
divorced.

Looks like your cluelessness have exposed again.
You have in your cluelessness been confused the
christian law to be the islamic law.

To mock and taunt you :

# of times you have been afraid of answering = 23

I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
afraid of textual criticism :
**********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
************

My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 31

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
I have responded to this issue earlier. Either you don't bother to
read or your reading comprehension is so POOR that you cannot even
catch the core point of the thread: "LAWFUL for the GREAT PROPHET to
divorce PREGNANT women."  The issue here is the type of Allah that
Muhammat solely portrays thru the so called GLORIOUS qoranic
revelation. In this particular ATH Talaaq sura, Muhammat portrays a
HEARTLESS god, as far as women treatment is concerned. Muhammat can
divorce his wives (all of them, to be replaced with better widows and
virgins, AT Tahrim 66:1-5) including those PREGNANT. And by the IDDAH
time, when they deliver their babies, your heartless Allah suggest
Muhammat to hire them to suckle the babies now considered Muhammat'
property only.
And your response has been very poor. This from a
person who claim of others to have comprehension
1. Did the prophet ever divorced his wives?
2. What does '...It may be, if he ...' means in the
   context of the verse?
I repeat the thread titled Lawful for GREAT PROPHET to divorce
pregnant women.
The questions again -
1. Did the prophet ever divorced his wives?
2. What does '...It may be, if he ...' means in the
   context of the verse?
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
If it has been lawful to divorce pregnant women , why
then verse65:4 of the prohibition to divorce pregnant
women? Your cluelessness is again being displayed. So
now the prophet is god issit? We are not talking about
your 'son of god' here. I think you are confused.
You'd better clarify this statement. Doesn't your 65:4 states: "..and
for those who have for those who carry (life within their wombs),
their period is until they deliver their burdens......"
Verses65:1 & 4
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them
   at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately),
   and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
   (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty
   of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah.
   and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does
   verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
   perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new
   situation.
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly
   courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have
   any doubts, is three months, and for those who have
   no courses (it is the same): for those who carry
   (life within their wombs), their period is until
   they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear
   Allah, He will make their path easy.
For a person with 'superior' comprehension , can you
pin point to me where it states of it being lawful
to divorce pregnant wives? Lets see what bull shit
will you put up.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
'...Muhammat took to become his wife the fairer and
 beautiful one, Marry the Copt,....
- ' ....By accepting Mariyah, the Copt from Egypt,
    as his wife, he formed a political alliance with
    a king of great magnitude....'
    Source: Islam In Focus by Hammudah Abdalati
    p. 177-178
ref :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqawqis
excerpt : '.... Al-Muqawqis ordered that the letter
                should be placed in an ivory casket,
                to be kept safely in the government
                treasury, and he sent the following
                From Muqawqis
                I read your letter and understood
                what you have written. I know that
                the coming of a Prophet is still due.
                But I thought, he would be born in
                Syria – I have treated your messenger
                with respect and honor. I am sending
                two maids for you as presents. These
                maids belong to a very respectable
                family amongst us. In addition I send
                for you clothes and a Duldul (steed)
                for riding.
                May God bestow security on you....'
The documented proof (muqawis's letter) is still
available in turkey
In your post dated aug26 , 6.33am - you have admitted
that mary the copt married the prophet. Works by the
historians and scholars provided evidence of mary the
copt married the prophet.
How come you in your only fantasy came up with -
'...when he took to bed Maryam the Copt, then
 Hafsya's slave. While visiting his wife Hafsya,
 he took a liking at ...'
Are you arguing based on facts or bullshit (which you
usually do)?
You have again contradicted yourself when you mentioned
pregnant women and iddah. That means the prohibition
to divorce pregnant women. You are going around in
circles.
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as
   ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not,
   so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in
   their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them
   until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle
   your (offspring), give them their recompense: and
   take mutual counsel together, according to what is
   just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in
   difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child)
   on the (father's) behalf.
What is the conditions for a wet nurse? Can you also
pinpoint where is it that states that the child is the
property of the prophet?
You sure you are not confused with your bible that
Let us look at Eph6:4
ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5182024
[4] And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to
    wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and
    admonition of the Lord.
ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
           Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
           from her husband – she must not take
           his children, his property, his money.
           Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
           a violation of the commandment "thou
           shalt not steal"...'
The Quran and bible are different. Your issues are
from the bible.
So far what you have provided has been bullshit.
When questioned you avoid answering the question.
Coming from someone who has 'superior'
comprehension ....
# of times you have been afraid of answering = 21
I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
         **********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
         ************
My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?
I am not entertaining your attempt to side step from the thread.
Your are exposing yourself of being clueless and
running around in circles chasing your backside.
The above is the response to your again empty
claim that the prophet slept with hafsah's slave
- mary the copt - whereas historically it has been
confirmed that hafsah did not own mary the copt
as a slave and you also contradicted yourself by
stating that mary married the prophet.
# of times you have been afraid of answering = 22
I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
         **********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
...
read more »
donie
2008-10-17 14:03:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
I admit I misquoted the number of your qoran verse on Allah's threat
to Muhammat's wives. Instead of AT Tahrim 66:4/5 I quoted 65:4
In other words you are clueless and have been going
around in circles chasing your own backside. That
I can understand.
Your poor inference skill as shown above would not drive me to side
step the issue from the profoundly cruel and evil tendency of your
Allah in allowing Muhammat to divorce his wives including pregnant
women. And your Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal for the
divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment bases.> --snip--
This is where you are at your best. You equivocate and
keep on repeating already refuted arguments.
Verse65:1 & 4
Verses65:1 & 4
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them
   at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately),
   and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
   (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty
   of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah.
   and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does
   verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
   perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new
   situation.
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly
   courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have
   any doubts, is three months, and for those who have
   no courses (it is the same): for those who carry
   (life within their wombs), their period is until
   they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear
   Allah, He will make their path easy.
For a person with 'superior' comprehension , can you
pin point to me where it states of it being lawful
to divorce pregnant wives? Lets see what bull shit
will you put up. You have been putting up a lot
lately.
Can't you read FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFES IN THEIR WOMBS) and SUCKLING
ARRANGEMENT in 65:6?
Post by s***@hotmail.com
I am not surprised that you do not even know of the
word 'ALIMONY'. This can be clearly seen with the
ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
    and it come to pass that she find no favour
    in his eyes, because he hath found some
    uncleanness in her: then let him write her a
    bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand,
    and send her out of his house.
This meaning that if the man is to divorce the wife
, the wife gets NOTHING.
Islamic law   = man divorce wife alimony is a must
                for child maintenance. Divorcing
                pregnant wife is a no.
Christian law = man divorce wife and NO NEED for
                alimony. Pregnant wives can be
                divorced.
Looks like your cluelessness have exposed again.
You have in your cluelessness been confused the
christian law to be the islamic law.
# of times you have been afraid of answering = 23
I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
         **********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
         ************
My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?
Count of you refusing to answer the question = 31
You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.
Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?
sam1528
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
I have responded to this issue earlier. Either you don't bother to
read or your reading comprehension is so POOR that you cannot even
catch the core point of the thread: "LAWFUL for the GREAT PROPHET to
divorce PREGNANT women."  The issue here is the type of Allah that
Muhammat solely portrays thru the so called GLORIOUS qoranic
revelation. In this particular ATH Talaaq sura, Muhammat portrays a
HEARTLESS god, as far as women treatment is concerned. Muhammat can
divorce his wives (all of them, to be replaced with better widows and
virgins, AT Tahrim 66:1-5) including those PREGNANT. And by the IDDAH
time, when they deliver their babies, your heartless Allah suggest
Muhammat to hire them to suckle the babies now considered Muhammat'
property only.
And your response has been very poor. This from a
person who claim of others to have comprehension
1. Did the prophet ever divorced his wives?
2. What does '...It may be, if he ...' means in the
   context of the verse?
I repeat the thread titled Lawful for GREAT PROPHET to divorce
pregnant women.
The questions again -
1. Did the prophet ever divorced his wives?
2. What does '...It may be, if he ...' means in the
   context of the verse?
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
If it has been lawful to divorce pregnant women , why
then verse65:4 of the prohibition to divorce pregnant
women? Your cluelessness is again being displayed. So
now the prophet is god issit? We are not talking about
your 'son of god' here. I think you are confused.
You'd better clarify this statement. Doesn't your 65:4 states: "..and
for those who have for those who carry (life within their wombs),
their period is until they deliver their burdens......"
Verses65:1 & 4
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them
   at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately),
   and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
   (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty
   of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah.
   and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does
   verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
   perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new
   situation.
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly
   courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have
   any doubts, is three months, and for those who have
   no courses (it is the same): for those who carry
   (life within their wombs), their period is until
   they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear
   Allah, He will make their path easy.
For a person with 'superior' comprehension , can you
pin point to me where it states of it being lawful
to divorce pregnant wives? Lets see what bull shit
will you put up.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
'...Muhammat took to become his wife the fairer and
 beautiful one, Marry the Copt,....
- ' ....By accepting Mariyah, the Copt from Egypt,
    as his wife, he formed a political alliance with
    a king of great magnitude....'
    Source: Islam In Focus by Hammudah Abdalati
    p. 177-178
ref :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqawqis
excerpt : '.... Al-Muqawqis ordered that the letter
                should be placed in an ivory casket,
                to be kept safely in the government
                treasury, and he sent the following
                From Muqawqis
                I read your letter and understood
                what you have written. I know that
                the coming of a Prophet is still due.
                But I thought, he would be born in
                Syria – I have treated your messenger
                with respect and honor. I am sending
                two maids for you as presents. These
                maids belong to a very respectable
                family amongst us. In addition I send
                for you clothes and a Duldul (steed)
                for riding.
                May God bestow security on you....'
The documented proof (muqawis's letter)
...
read more »
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-18 06:42:35 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 17, 10:03 pm, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
This is where you are at your best. You equivocate and
keep on repeating already refuted arguments.
Verse65:1 & 4
Verses65:1 & 4
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them
   at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately),
   and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
   (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty
   of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah.
   and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does
   verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
   perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new
   situation.
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly
   courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have
   any doubts, is three months, and for those who have
   no courses (it is the same): for those who carry
   (life within their wombs), their period is until
   they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear
   Allah, He will make their path easy.
For a person with 'superior' comprehension , can you
pin point to me where it states of it beinglawful
to divorce pregnant wives? Lets see what bull shit
will you put up. You have been putting up a lot
lately.
Can't you read FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFES IN THEIR WOMBS) and SUCKLING
ARRANGEMENT in 65:6?
Are you sure you have 'superior' comprehension?
Looks like you are just bull shitting ...

bit part of verse65:1 : '...When ye do divorce
women, divorce them at
their prescribed periods,
and count (accurately),
their prescribed periods...'
bit part of verse65:4 : '...for those who carry
(life within their wombs),
their period is until
they deliver their burdens...'

You sure have a lot of problems in trying to 'connect
the dots'. The above 2 verses clearly states that
there are prescribed periods in divorce. For pregnant
women its after child birth. Do you understand what
does 'until they deliver their burdens' mean? Very
poor for a person who claim of 'superior' comprehension.

Now you bring up the already refuted argument of
suckling arrangement.
verse65:6
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style
as ye live, according to your means: Annoy them
not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry
(life in their wombs), then spend (your substance)
on them until they deliver their burden: and if
they suckle your (offspring), give them their
recompense: and take mutual counsel together,
according to what is just and reasonable. And if
ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another
woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.

Your cluelessness is again being exposed. The verse
mention that 'if ye find yourselves in difficulties'
find a wet nurse to suckle the baby.

Per your logic , if there is difficulty , leave the
baby to die issit? You somehow lost your logic and
wisdom or you do not have any to start with? Which
is which?

To mock and taunt you :

# of times you have been afraid of answering = 24

I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
afraid of textual criticism :
**********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
************

My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 32

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-18 16:46:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
This is where you are at your best. You equivocate and
keep on repeating already refuted arguments.
Verse65:1 & 4
Verses65:1 & 4
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them
   at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately),
   and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
   (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty
   of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah.
   and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does
   verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
   perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new
   situation.
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly
   courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have
   any doubts, is three months, and for those who have
   no courses (it is the same): for those who carry
   (life within their wombs), their period is until
   they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear
   Allah, He will make their path easy.
For a person with 'superior' comprehension , can you
pin point to me where it states of it beinglawful
to divorce pregnant wives? Lets see what bull shit
will you put up. You have been putting up a lot
lately.
Can't you read FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFES IN THEIR WOMBS) and SUCKLING
ARRANGEMENT in 65:6?
Are you sure you have 'superior' comprehension?
Looks like you are just bull shitting ...
bit part of verse65:1 : '...When ye do divorce
                         women, divorce them at
                         their prescribed periods,
                         and count (accurately),
                         their prescribed periods...'
bit part of verse65:4 : '...for those who carry
                         (life within their wombs),
                         their period is until
                         they deliver their burdens...'
You sure have a lot of problems in trying to 'connect
the dots'. The above 2 verses clearly states that
there are prescribed periods in divorce. For pregnant
women its after child birth. Do you understand what
does 'until they deliver their burdens' mean? Very
poor for a person who claim of 'superior' comprehension.
Now you bring up the already refuted argument of
suckling arrangement.
verse65:6
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style
   as ye live, according to your means: Annoy them
   not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry
   (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance)
   on them until they deliver their burden: and if
   they suckle your (offspring), give them their
   recompense: and take mutual counsel together,
   according to what is just and reasonable. And if
   ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another
   woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.
Your cluelessness is again being exposed. The verse
mention that 'if ye find yourselves in difficulties'
find a wet nurse to suckle the baby.
You have providing me so many clues in most of our exchanges. In this
particular case, first you would deny the issue by asking "show me
proof that Muhammat was divorcing his wives", and later you would
avoid discussing the issue by asking "where would you read that Allah
makes lawful for Muhammat to divorce pregnant women", and now you are
trying to divert the issue by:

================Sam's statement==
Per your logic , if there is difficulty , leave the
baby to die issit? You somehow lost your logic and
wisdom or you do not have any to start with? Which
is which?
======================

Now, the record shows how you accuse me of sidestepping very often,
while it is you that evade the issue at hand often.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
# of times you have been afraid of answering = 24
I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
         **********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
         ************
My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?
Count of you refusing to answer the question = 32
You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.
Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?
sam1528
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-19 14:08:21 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 19, 12:46 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Now you bring up the already refuted argument of
suckling arrangement.
verse65:6
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style
   as ye live, according to your means: Annoy them
   not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry
   (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance)
   on them until they deliver their burden: and if
   they suckle your (offspring), give them their
   recompense: and take mutual counsel together,
   according to what is just and reasonable. And if
   ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another
   woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.
Your cluelessness is again being exposed. The verse
mention that 'if ye find yourselves in difficulties'
find a wet nurse to suckle the baby.
You have providing me so many clues in most of our exchanges. In this
particular case, first you would deny the issue by asking "show me
proof that Muhammat was divorcing his wives", and later you would
avoid discussing the issue by asking "where would you read that Allah
makes lawful for Muhammat to divorce pregnant women", and now you are
================Sam's statement==
Per your logic , if there is difficulty , leave the
baby to die issit? You somehow lost your logic and
wisdom or you do not have any to start with? Which
is which?
======================
Now, the record shows how you accuse me of sidestepping very often,
while it is you that evade the issue at hand often.
Even with all of the clues you are still clueless and
trying your very best to avoid answering the questions.
Why flip flop in your argument? Simple , because you
do not have facts to back up your argument.

The first question as follows :
- did Prophet Muhammad (saw) ever divorced his wives?
yes or no
If yes , then you are living in a fantasy world as
you cannot grasp facts. If no , then you are again
arguing from conjectures and wild speculation. You
are not factual in your argument (as usual).

The second question :
- pinpoint where in verse65:4 that allows for the
divorce of pregnant wives?

On both cases you avoided in answering the questions.
Therefore it can be concluded that your argument has
been on the basis of conjecture , wild and spurious
claims. Bull shit walks ..... heard of that before.

How to discuss with you as all of what you brought
up has been bull shit.

Your post of oct12 , 1.32pm
'...devilishly advocating to HIRE the divorced wives
to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on payment
basis?....'

Your post of oct16 , 11.46pm -
'...Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal
for the divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment
bases...'

Look at the silliness of your argument. Never heard
of the word alimony for child maintenance issit?


bit part of verse65:6
'...ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another
woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf...'

Citing from nick 'rangkampo...' and thanking him :
ref :
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=biABXOXrajYC&dq=Global+strategy+for+infant+and+young+child+feeding&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=1jA4d9aUSQ&sig=PhCr8z2OsaqgnPbYbJ8T6iXtWVs&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA10,M1

excerpt : '...The vast majority of mothers can and
should breastfeed...... For those few
situations where infants cannot ......be
breastfed ...... the choice of the best
alternative .....breast milk from a healty
wet nurse or human milk bank.....'
- source Global Strategy for Infant and
Young Child Feeding - Exercising
other feeding options page 10

ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breastfeeding
excerpt : '...According to a WHO 2001 report,[10]
alternatives to breastfeeding include:
* breast milk from a healthy wet-nurse
or a human-milk bank...'


Woo ho! , even WHO (and UNESCO) advocated wet nurse
if the mother has difficulties in nursing the baby
which is exactly as per verse65:6. Wow , looks like
the Quran is right again (and again and again).

What was your comment of verse65:6 -
Your post of oct12 , 1.32pm
'...devilishly advocating to HIRE the divorced wives
to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on payment
basis?....'

Your post of oct16 , 11.46pm -
'...Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal
for the divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment
bases...'

Now you are looking very silly , clueless and have
been running around in circles chasing your backside.
Look at your comments compared to that of WHO in the
support of suckling the babies and the utilisation
of wet nurses. Again , you look like a clown not
knowing heads or tails of the argument. I love this,
this christian is looking extremely bad , silly and
clueless.

If there is difficulty in the mother suckling the baby
, its the father's duty to look for a wet nurse for the
baby. By your logic since its heartless , then let the
baby die issit? Your cluelessness knows no bounds.

Interesting point that nick 'rangkampo...' brought up.
Quran verse46:15
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/46.htm
15. We have enjoined on man kindness to his parents:
In pain did his mother bear him, and in pain did
she give him birth. The carrying of the (child)
to his weaning is (a period of) thirty months ...'
This means that suckling of the child is for 21 months
or close to 2 years.

WHO recommendation for breast feeding :
ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breastfeeding
excerpt : '...The World Health Organization (WHO)
recommends breastfeeding for up to two
years or beyond and exclusive breastfeeding
for the first six months of life ...'

Observe the accuracy of the revelation of the Quran
~ 1400 years ago against the WHO recommendation for
the period of breastfeeding.

Again the Quran comes up trumps and along the way ,
the Quran made you look silly and clueless. Got you
again (and again and again). Our resident clueless
christian just got his argument demolished by the
Quran. Too bad , I just cannot stop laughing at
you.

To mock and taunt you :

# of times you have been afraid of answering = 25

I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
afraid of textual criticism :
**********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
************

My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 33

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-19 22:12:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Now you bring up the already refuted argument of
suckling arrangement.
verse65:6
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style
   as ye live, according to your means: Annoy them
   not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry
   (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance)
   on them until they deliver their burden: and if
   they suckle your (offspring), give them their
   recompense: and take mutual counsel together,
   according to what is just and reasonable. And if
   ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another
   woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.
Your cluelessness is again being exposed. The verse
mention that 'if ye find yourselves in difficulties'
find a wet nurse to suckle the baby.
You have providing me so many clues in most of our exchanges. In this
particular case, first you would deny the issue by asking "show me
proof that Muhammat was divorcing his wives", and later you would
avoid discussing the issue by asking "where would you read that Allah
makes lawful for Muhammat to divorce pregnant women", and now you are
================Sam's statement==
Per your logic , if there is difficulty , leave the
baby to die issit? You somehow lost your logic and
wisdom or you do not have any to start with? Which
is which?
======================
Now, the record shows how you accuse me of sidestepping very often,
while it is you that evade the issue at hand often.
Even with all of the clues you are still clueless and
trying your very best to avoid answering the questions.
Why flip flop in your argument? Simple , because you
do not have facts to back up your argument.
- did Prophet Muhammad (saw) ever divorced his wives?
  yes or no
If yes , then you are living in a fantasy world as
you cannot grasp facts. If no , then you are again
arguing from conjectures and wild speculation. You
are not factual in your argument (as usual).
- pinpoint where in verse65:4 that allows for the
  divorce of pregnant wives?
On both cases you avoided in answering the questions.
Therefore it can be concluded that your argument has
been on the basis of conjecture , wild and spurious
claims. Bull shit walks ..... heard of that before.
How to discuss with you as all of what you brought
up has been bull shit.
Your post of oct12 , 1.32pm
'...devilishly advocating to HIRE the divorced wives
 to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on payment
 basis?....'
Your post of oct16 , 11.46pm -
'...Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal
 for the divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment
 bases...'
Look at the silliness of your argument. Never heard
of the word alimony for child maintenance issit?
bit part of verse65:6
'...ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another
 woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf...'
ref :http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=biABXOXrajYC&dq=Global+strateg...
excerpt : '...The vast majority of mothers can and
           should breastfeed...... For those few
           situations where infants cannot ......be
           breastfed ...... the choice of the best
           alternative .....breast milk from a healty
           wet nurse or human milk bank.....'
           - source Global Strategy for Infant and
                    Young Child Feeding - Exercising
                    other feeding options page 10
ref :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breastfeeding
excerpt : '...According to a WHO 2001 report,[10]
           * breast milk from a healthy wet-nurse
             or a human-milk bank...'
Woo ho! , even WHO (and UNESCO) advocated wet nurse
if the mother has difficulties in nursing the baby
which is exactly as per verse65:6. Wow , looks like
the Quran is right again (and again and again).
What was your comment of verse65:6 -
Your post of oct12 , 1.32pm
'...devilishly advocating to HIRE the divorced wives
 to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on payment
 basis?....'
Your post of oct16 , 11.46pm -
'...Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal
 for the divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment
 bases...'
Now you are looking very silly , clueless and have
been running around in circles chasing your backside.
Look at your comments compared to that of WHO in the
support of suckling the babies and the utilisation
of wet nurses. Again , you look like a clown not
knowing heads or tails of the argument. I love this,
this christian is looking extremely bad , silly and
clueless.
Take it easy Sam. Be calm. Your emotion has been curbing your thinking
process clarity. Look how many times have you accused me of side
stepping, flip-flopping, chasing my own backside, running away from
questions/issues, what not, while if you're sober enough to read the
very title of the thread, it's about LAW, not necessarily in divorcing
practices.

I question the kind of god your GREAT PROPHET Muhammat wants to
portray, a profoundly cruel, misogynist Allah. True God should be at
least above inherent reasoning of common mankind. God doesn't need to
threaten women, in this Ath Talaaq case, Mohammat's wives. It's
immoral for your Allah to issue a LAW allowing Muhammat's to divorce
his wives especially those who are PREGNANT. It's heartless for your
Allah to suggest Muhammat to negotiate with the divorced wives to
suckle their own babies on payment basis. The issue is not the
suckling in general. FYI, women also have heart. That's why once I
appeal to your emotion. To ask your Mom, aunties and your sisters how
do they feel if they are aware that your Allah has a strong tendency
to THREATEN women. Threatening women is the only cause served by many
quranic passages including this ATH Talaaq, At Tahrim 66:4/5, An Nisa
4:34.

Now that you keep pressing to side step to whether or not Muhammat
practiced such Allah's law he alone revealed, I would want to discuss
the equivocation in your early Islamic texts on whether or not
Muhammat divorced his old and sagging wife, Saudah. But that I would
post in a separate thread, factored from lesson learnt (Conclusion no
3) of our lengthy encounter, to discuss and conclude one at a time, .
Post by s***@hotmail.com
If there is difficulty in the mother suckling the baby
, its the father's duty to look for a wet nurse for the
baby. By your logic since its heartless , then let the
baby die issit? Your cluelessness knows no bounds.
Interesting point that nick 'rangkampo...' brought up.
Quran verse46:15
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/46.htm
    In pain did his mother bear him, and in pain did
    she give him birth. The carrying of the (child)
    to his weaning is (a period of) thirty months ...'
This means that suckling of the child is for 21 months
or close to 2 years.
ref :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breastfeeding
excerpt : '...The World Health Organization (WHO)
           recommends breastfeeding for up to two
           years or beyond and exclusive breastfeeding
           for the first six months of life ...'
Observe the accuracy of the revelation of the Quran
~ 1400 years ago against the WHO recommendation for
the period of breastfeeding.
Again the Quran comes up trumps and along the way ,
the Quran made you look silly and clueless. Got you
again (and again and again). Our resident clueless
christian just got his argument demolished by the
Quran. Too bad , I just cannot stop laughing at
you.
# of times you have been afraid of answering = 25
I will not let you get away that easy. In response
to your post of sept 26 , 10.33am my question in
response to your boast of christians not being
         **********
Consider the genealogy of jesus in matt
1:1-16 and in luke3:23-38 , one person with 2
different genealogies. This does not even take into
account of jesus being of virgin birth hence no
father (if you understand the concept of virgin
birth). Then your so called criticism comes up
with a bullshit that the genealogy as shown in luke
is that of mary. Its really stretching the imagination
, don't you agree. In essence , biblical criticism
by you christians is more of trying to make sense
of the absurdities in your bible in addition to you
christians not having a clue on how the variants
crept into your bible.
         ************
My question that you have always been afraid to answer.
Where in the verses that states that you cannot question
the prophet?
Count of you refusing to answer the question = 33
You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.
Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?
sam1528
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-20 09:10:28 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 20, 6:12 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

--snip--

I am going to dig this again. Evidence of you being
clueless in your argument :
**************
Your post of oct12 , 1.32pm
'...devilishly advocating to HIRE the divorced wives
to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on payment
basis?....'

Your post of oct16 , 11.46pm -
'...Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal
for the divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment
bases...'

Look at the silliness of your argument. Never heard
of the word alimony for child maintenance issit?

bit part of verse65:6
'...ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another
woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf...'

Citing from nick 'rangkampo...' and thanking him :
ref :
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=biABXOXrajYC&dq=Global+strateg...

excerpt : '...The vast majority of mothers can and
should breastfeed...... For those few
situations where infants cannot ......be
breastfed ...... the choice of the best
alternative .....breast milk from a healty
wet nurse or human milk bank.....'
- source Global Strategy for Infant and
Young Child Feeding - Exercising
other feeding options page 10

ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breastfeeding
excerpt : '...According to a WHO 2001 report,[10]
alternatives to breastfeeding include:
* breast milk from a healthy wet-nurse
or a human-milk bank...'

Woo ho! , even WHO (and UNESCO) advocated wet nurse
if the mother has difficulties in nursing the baby
which is exactly as per verse65:6. Wow , looks like
the Quran is right again (and again and again).

What was your comment of verse65:6 -
Your post of oct12 , 1.32pm
'...devilishly advocating to HIRE the divorced wives
to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on payment
basis?....'

Your post of oct16 , 11.46pm -
'...Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal
for the divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment
bases...'

Now you are looking very silly , clueless and have
been running around in circles chasing your backside.
Look at your comments compared to that of WHO in the
support of suckling the babies and the utilisation
of wet nurses. Again , you look like a clown not
knowing heads or tails of the argument. I love this,
this christian is looking extremely bad , silly and
clueless.

If there is difficulty in the mother suckling the baby
, its the father's duty to look for a wet nurse for the
baby. By your logic since its heartless , then let the
baby die issit? Your cluelessness knows no bounds.
***********************

--snip--
Post by donie
Take it easy Sam. Be calm. Your emotion has been curbing your thinking
process clarity. Look how many times have you accused me of side
stepping, flip-flopping, chasing my own backside, running away from
questions/issues, what not, while if you're sober enough to read the
very title of the thread, it's about LAW, not necessarily in divorcing
practices.
Woo hoo , now its about law issit? You found yourself
being refuted even by the WHO in terms of wet nurse
now you are back tracking and inventing a new excuse.

Your new excuse is an admission from you that the
prophet never ever divorced his wives. It is also an
admission from you that your argument has so far been
based on conjectures and wild spurious claims. You
had never been able to argue on facts so you created
your argument based on conjecture.

In that sense , if I were to follow your cue I can
also bull shit in saying that since jesus always had
mary magdalena with him. Therefore he had married her
in secret. That is the nature and quality of your
argument. Argue on facts not on fantasy that you
create just because you have lost in every point you
presented.
Post by donie
I question the kind of god your GREAT PROPHET Muhammat wants to
portray, a profoundly cruel, misogynist Allah.  True God should be at
least above inherent reasoning of common mankind.  God doesn't need to
threaten women, in this Ath Talaaq case, Mohammat's wives. It's
immoral for your Allah to issue a LAW allowing Muhammat's to divorce
his wives especially those who are PREGNANT. It's heartless for your
Allah to suggest Muhammat to negotiate with the divorced wives to
suckle their own babies on payment basis. The issue is not the
suckling in general. FYI, women also have heart. That's why once I
appeal to your emotion. To ask your Mom, aunties and your sisters how
do they feel if they are aware that your Allah has a strong tendency
to THREATEN women. Threatening women is the only cause served by many
quranic passages including this ATH Talaaq, At Tahrim 66:4/5, An Nisa
4:34.
Show me where is it threatening? Until now you have
failed to prove your point. You still keep on
repeating refuted arguments. Verse65:4 clearly states
of the prohibition to divorce pregnant women but only
in the bull shit church of 'donie' that say that verse
65:4 allows the divorce of pregnant women. Verse66:5
starts if with a big 'IT MAY BE , IF'. Of all the
persons I know , only you take it has the divorce
happened despite historical evidence of the prophet
never divorced any of his wives. Deception , lies and
cluelessness from you.

Now your excuse has been modified to the 'negotiation
of suckling of babies'. Have you not heard of the
word 'alimony' for child maintenance? As a christian
of course you have never heard or know of the word.
This is because in deut24:1 , the man can kick out his
wife regardless pregnant or not and she gets nothing
from him , not even alimony for child maintenance.

Looks like your emotions is placed in the wrong
religion. Let us compare divorce & child custody
between islam (as in Quran) and christianity (as in
bible)

Islam Christianity
1. Custody of mother father
children (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony must no need
3. Divorce pregnant NO OK
wives
4. Rights to shared woman no rights
children

It the other way actually , if you have a heart ,
you would provide alimony for child maintenance as
ordained by the Quran. Not like your biblical laws
that does not give a damn about the women ,pregnant
or not she gets booted from her husband's house.
There is no child maintenance.
ref : http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
from her husband – she must not take
his children, his property, his money.
Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
a violation of the commandment "thou
shalt not steal"..
Looks like the biblical laws is a hell lot worse and
barbaric when it comes to the treatment of wives and
providing of alimony for child support. Since you
are emotional over this issue then you should renounce
christianity. Just look at the biblical laws of
divorce and child maintenance.
Post by donie
Now that you keep pressing to side step to whether or not Muhammat
practiced such Allah's law he alone revealed, I would want to discuss
the equivocation in your early Islamic texts on whether or not
Muhammat divorced his old and sagging wife, Saudah. But that I would
post in a separate thread, factored from lesson learnt (Conclusion no
3) of our lengthy encounter, to discuss and conclude one at a time, .
Up to you. Looks like you have come up short in
every point you made. The arguments and questions
come back harder at you. You then ran away , come
back later , harp on the same refuted issues and
pretended that nothing happened.

You again refuted yourself in your admission of the
prophet marriage to the aged saudah. What happened to
your favourite of 'THOU BEAUTY ATTRACT THEE'. Issit
that you equivocated in presenting the early islamic
text?

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 34

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
Gwa Hok Kie™
2008-10-20 11:35:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Woo hoo , now its about law issit? You found yourself
being refuted even by the WHO in terms of wet nurse
now you are back tracking and inventing a new excuse.
Your new excuse is an admission from you that the
prophet never ever divorced his wives. It is also an
admission from you that your argument has so far been
based on conjectures and wild spurious claims. You
had never been able to argue on facts so you created
your argument based on conjecture.
In that sense , if I were to follow your cue I can
also bull shit in saying that since jesus always had
mary magdalena with him. Therefore he had married her
in secret. That is the nature and quality of your
argument. Argue on facts
sammie , take my advice

why dont you concentrate in this long-standing issue ,

a grand claim made by your moon god :

"FOR I AM THE BEST OF ALL DECEIVERS" (Kairun Al Mukareena)


unless you settle this first, all you have said all this time

are just craps and obviosuly meaning-less

wakakakakakakakkaakakkakak
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-20 14:40:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gwa Hok Kie™
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Woo hoo , now its about law issit? You found yourself
being refuted even by the WHO in terms of wet nurse
now you are back tracking and inventing a new excuse.
Your new excuse is an admission from you that the
prophet never ever divorced his wives. It is also an
admission from you that your argument has so far been
based on conjectures and wild spurious claims. You
had never been able to argue on facts so you created
your argument based on conjecture.
In that sense , if I were to follow your cue I can
also bull shit in saying that since jesus always had
mary magdalena with him. Therefore he had married her
in secret. That is the nature and quality of your
argument. Argue on facts
sammie , take my advice
why dont you concentrate in this long-standing issue ,
"FOR I AM THE BEST OF ALL DECEIVERS" (Kairun Al Mukareena)
unless you settle this first, all you have said all this time
are just craps and obviosuly meaning-less
wakakakakakakakkaakakkakak
again same christian using a different name .... :(
Schen Xie Tiep™
2008-10-20 14:52:00 UTC
Permalink
fcb6a84e8a54
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by Gwa Hok Kie™
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Woo hoo , now its about law issit? You found yourself
being refuted even by the WHO in terms of wet nurse
now you are back tracking and inventing a new excuse.
Your new excuse is an admission from you that the
prophet never ever divorced his wives. It is also an
admission from you that your argument has so far been
based on conjectures and wild spurious claims. You
had never been able to argue on facts so you created
your argument based on conjecture.
In that sense , if I were to follow your cue I can
also bull shit in saying that since jesus always had
mary magdalena with him. Therefore he had married her
in secret. That is the nature and quality of your
argument. Argue on facts
sammie , take my advice
why dont you concentrate in this long-standing issue ,
"FOR I AM THE BEST OF ALL DECEIVERS" (Kairun Al Mukareena)
unless you settle this first, all you have said all this time
are just craps and obviosuly meaning-less
wakakakakakakakkaakakkakak
again same christian using a different name .... :(
concentrate sammie, concentrate on that particular issue

"For I am the best of all deceivers"

and dont get smarter in dodging,

wakakakakakakakakakakkkkkk
donie
2008-10-21 03:33:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
I am going to dig this again. Evidence of you being
             **************
Your post of oct12 , 1.32pm
'...devilishly advocating to HIRE the divorced wives
 to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on payment
 basis?....'
Your post of oct16 , 11.46pm -
'...Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal
 for the divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment
 bases...'
Look at the silliness of your argument. Never heard
of the word alimony for child maintenance issit?
bit part of verse65:6
'...ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another
 woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf...'
If you read ATH TALAAQ 65:1-6 as an integral part, you will see that
suckling by other women is necessary because the biological mothers,
the divorced wives of Muhammat, do not want to suckle their own babies
for the fact that, in the Allah's scenario, they are already and
effectively divorced. Muhammat fails to negotiate with them. Perhaps
the suckling wage offered is to cheap, or the heartbreak being too
painful to contain for the hypothetical divorced wives.

Btw why would you jump to the issue of 'alimony'? If you read
carefully, the 65:1-6 verses are referring to provision during 'iddat'
period, which for the case of divorced pregnant women would be up to
time of delivery. Do you read otherwise?
Post by s***@hotmail.com
ref :http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=biABXOXrajYC&dq=Global+strateg...
excerpt : '...The vast majority of mothers can and
           should breastfeed...... For those few
           situations where infants cannot ......be
           breastfed ...... the choice of the best
           alternative .....breast milk from a healty
           wet nurse or human milk bank.....'
           - source Global Strategy for Infant and
                    Young Child Feeding - Exercising
                    other feeding options page 10
ref :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breastfeeding
excerpt : '...According to a WHO 2001 report,[10]
           * breast milk from a healthy wet-nurse
             or a human-milk bank...'
Woo ho! , even WHO (and UNESCO) advocated wet nurse
if the mother has difficulties in nursing the baby
which is exactly as per verse65:6. Wow , looks like
the Quran is right again (and again and again).
What was your comment of verse65:6 -
Your post of oct12 , 1.32pm
'...devilishly advocating to HIRE the divorced wives
 to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on payment
 basis?....'
Your post of oct16 , 11.46pm -
'...Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal
 for the divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment
 bases...'
Now you are looking very silly , clueless and have
been running around in circles chasing your backside.
Look at your comments compared to that of WHO in the
support of suckling the babies and the utilisation
of wet nurses. Again , you look like a clown not
knowing heads or tails of the argument. I love this,
this christian is looking extremely bad , silly and
clueless.
If there is difficulty in the mother suckling the baby
, its the father's duty to look for a wet nurse for the
baby. By your logic since its heartless , then let the
baby die issit? Your cluelessness knows no bounds.
         ***********************
--snip--
Post by donie
Take it easy Sam. Be calm. Your emotion has been curbing your thinking
process clarity. Look how many times have you accused me of side
stepping, flip-flopping, chasing my own backside, running away from
questions/issues, what not, while if you're sober enough to read the
very title of the thread, it's about LAW, not necessarily in divorcing
practices.
Woo hoo , now its about law issit? You found yourself
being refuted even by the WHO in terms of wet nurse
now you are back tracking and inventing a new excuse.
Your new excuse is an admission from you that the
prophet never ever divorced his wives. It is also an
admission from you that your argument has so far been
based on conjectures and wild spurious claims. You
had never been able to argue on facts so you created
your argument based on conjecture.
In that sense , if I were to follow your cue I can
also bull shit in saying that since jesus always had
mary magdalena with him. Therefore he had married her
in secret. That is the nature and quality of your
argument. Argue on facts not on fantasy that you
create just because you have lost in every point you
presented.
Post by donie
I question the kind of god your GREAT PROPHET Muhammat wants to
portray, a profoundly cruel, misogynist Allah.  True God should be at
least above inherent reasoning of common mankind.  God doesn't need to
threaten women, in this Ath Talaaq case, Mohammat's wives. It's
immoral for your Allah to issue a LAW allowing Muhammat's to divorce
his wives especially those who are PREGNANT. It's heartless for your
Allah to suggest Muhammat to negotiate with the divorced wives to
suckle their own babies on payment basis. The issue is not the
suckling in general. FYI, women also have heart. That's why once I
appeal to your emotion. To ask your Mom, aunties and your sisters how
do they feel if they are aware that your Allah has a strong tendency
to THREATEN women. Threatening women is the only cause served by many
quranic passages including this ATH Talaaq, At Tahrim 66:4/5, An Nisa
4:34.
Show me where is it threatening? Until now you have
failed to prove your point. You still keep on
repeating refuted arguments. Verse65:4 clearly states
of the prohibition to divorce pregnant women but only
in the bull shit church of 'donie' that say that verse
65:4 allows the divorce of pregnant women. Verse66:5
starts if with a big 'IT MAY BE , IF'. Of all the
persons I know , only you take it has the divorce
happened despite historical evidence of the prophet
never divorced any of his wives. Deception , lies and
cluelessness from you.
Now your excuse has been modified to the 'negotiation
of suckling of babies'. Have you not heard of the
word 'alimony' for child maintenance? As a christian
of course you have never heard or know of the word.
This is because in deut24:1 , the man can kick out his
wife regardless pregnant or not and she gets nothing
from him , not even alimony for child maintenance.
Looks like your emotions is placed in the wrong
religion. Let us compare divorce & child custody
between islam (as in Quran) and christianity (as in
bible)
                       Islam        Christianity
1. Custody of          mother         father
   children         (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony              must          no need
3. Divorce pregnant      NO             OK
   wives
4. Rights to           shared      woman no rights
   children
It the other way actually , if you have a heart ,
you would provide alimony for child maintenance as
ordained by the Quran. Not like your biblical laws
that does not give a damn about the women ,pregnant
or not she gets booted from her husband's house.
There is no child maintenance.
ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
           Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
           from her husband – she must not take
           his children, his property, his money.
           Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
           a violation of the commandment "thou
           shalt not steal"..
Looks like the biblical laws is a hell lot worse and
barbaric when it comes to the treatment of wives and
providing of alimony for child support. Since you
are emotional over this issue then you should renounce
christianity. Just look at the biblical laws of
divorce and child maintenance.
Post by donie
Now that you keep pressing to side step to whether or not Muhammat
practiced such Allah's law he alone revealed, I would want to discuss
the equivocation in your early Islamic texts on whether or not
Muhammat divorced his old and sagging wife, Saudah. But that I would
post in a separate thread, factored from lesson learnt (Conclusion no
3) of our lengthy encounter, to discuss and conclude one at a time, .
Up to you. Looks like you have come up short in
every point you made. The arguments and questions
come back harder at you. You then ran away , come
back later , harp on the same refuted issues and
pretended that nothing happened.
You again refuted yourself in your admission of the
prophet marriage to the aged saudah. What happened to
your favourite of 'THOU BEAUTY ATTRACT THEE'. Issit
that you equivocated in presenting the early islamic
text?
Count of you refusing to answer the question = 34
You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.
Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?
sam1528
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-21 07:09:18 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 21, 11:33 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--

I am going to expose you again :

Your keypoint is '...hypothetical divorced wives..'
Therefore you are in admission that this argument
of yours is based on conjecture NOT facts. If your
argument is based on conjecture then you have
again bull shitted in your argument as you have not
forwarded any facts to support your argument. What
did you do - present hypothetical scenario , some
thing that never happened and will never happen.
Then you by deception call it your facts.
Post by donie
If you read ATH TALAAQ 65:1-6 as an integral part, you will see that
suckling by other women is necessary because the biological mothers,
the divorced wives of Muhammat, do not want to suckle their own babies
for the fact that, in the Allah's scenario, they are already and
effectively divorced. Muhammat fails to negotiate with them. Perhaps
the suckling wage offered is to cheap, or the heartbreak being too
painful to contain for the hypothetical divorced wives.
Lets look again at bit part of verse65:6
'...And if ye find yourselves in difficulties,
let another woman suckle (the child) on the
(father's) behalf...'

You then come you come up with your HYPOTHETICAL
scenarios of :
1. do not want to suckle their own babies
2. Muhammat fails to negotiate with them.
3. Perhaps the suckling wage offered is to cheap
4. the heartbreak being too painful to contain
for the HYPOTHETICAL DIVORCED wives.

For argument sake , lets follow your logic ,
your post of oct17 , 2.57pm same thread :
'... your Allah was further suggesting a heartless
deal for the divorced wives to suckle the baby on
payment bases ...'

Isn't it the women's right whether she wants to
suckle the baby or not. It is also her right to
demand for alimony for child maintenance. It is
also her right to refuse any kind of alimony if
it doesn't meet her expectation.

You complain of women being oppressed and 'heartless
for the divorced women to suckle the baby' with
alimony for child maintenance. However you have
contradicted yourself. On one hand you complain of
such but as you can see the decision is on the
part of the women whether she wants to suckle the
baby or not. The right of refusal belong to the
women not the man. Where is your so called
oppression and unjust?

Following your logic , therefore its forced upon
the women to suckle the baby and not to expect
any form of compensation. That is the christian
values as derived by from your bible of which
the women have got no rights. You being deceptive
is trying to tie biblical laws to the law from
the Quran. Very sneaky yeah ....
Post by donie
Btw why would you jump to the issue of 'alimony'? If you read
carefully, the 65:1-6 verses are referring to provision during 'iddat'
period, which for the case of divorced pregnant women would be up to
time of delivery. Do you read otherwise?
Your deception is so glaring :

bit part of verse65:6
'... and if they suckle your (offspring), give them their
recompense: ...'
You agreed : '...suckle the baby on payment bases ...'

Isn't compensation for child maintenance = alimony?

Islam Christianity
1. Custody of mother father
children (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony must no need
3. Divorce pregnant NO OK
wives
4. Rights to shared woman no rights
children

ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
from her husband – she must not take
his children, his property, his money.
Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
a violation of the commandment "thou
shalt not steal"...'

Interesting point here is that you have been very
evasive when biblical divorce laws have been
brought up for comparison. Are you embarrassed by
the unjust biblical divorce laws? This clearly
demonstrate that you christians are not in any
moral ground to judge others as you biblical
divorce law is a hell lot more unjust and barbaric
to women.

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 35

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-21 08:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Your keypoint is '...hypothetical divorced wives..'
Therefore you are in admission that this argument
of yours is based on conjecture NOT facts. If your
argument is based on conjecture then you have
again bull shitted in your argument as you have not
forwarded any facts to support your argument. What
did you do - present hypothetical scenario , some
thing that never happened and will never happen.
Then you by deception call it your facts.
It's up to you if you don't consider your glorious qoran, in this case
ATH TALAAW 65:1-6 as FACTS. I have been reading you these verses over
and over since you don't feel comfortable at all reading them
seriously.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
If you read ATH TALAAQ 65:1-6 as an integral part, you will see that
suckling by other women is necessary because the biological mothers,
the divorced wives of Muhammat, do not want to suckle their own babies
for the fact that, in the Allah's scenario, they are already and
effectively divorced. Muhammat fails to negotiate with them. Perhaps
the suckling wage offered is to cheap, or the heartbreak being too
painful to contain for the hypothetical divorced wives.
Lets look again at bit part of verse65:6
'...And if ye find yourselves in difficulties,
 let another woman suckle (the child) on the
 (father's) behalf...'
You then come you come up with your HYPOTHETICAL
1. do not want to suckle their own babies
2. Muhammat fails to negotiate with them.
3. Perhaps the suckling wage offered is to cheap
4. the heartbreak being too painful to contain
for the HYPOTHETICAL DIVORCED wives.
For argument sake , lets follow your logic ,
'... your Allah was further suggesting a heartless
 deal for the divorced wives to suckle the baby on
 payment bases ...'
Isn't it the women's right whether she wants to
suckle the baby or not. It is also her right to
demand for alimony for child maintenance. It is
also her right to refuse any kind of alimony if
it doesn't meet her expectation.
May I remind you the real issue here is the profoundly cruel and
HEARTLESS character of your Allah in making lawful for your GREAT
PROPHET to divorce his wives, let alone those PREGNANT, and to
advocate negotiation to the divorced wives when the divorces take
effect. ALIMONY normally used to refer to regular children support,
never meant to recompense suckling as projected by your Allah in QS
65:6
Post by s***@hotmail.com
You complain of women being oppressed and 'heartless
for the divorced women to suckle the baby' with
alimony for child maintenance. However you have
contradicted yourself. On one hand you complain of
such but as you can see the decision is on the
part of the women whether she wants to suckle the
baby or not. The right of refusal belong to the
women not the man. Where is your so called
oppression and unjust?
Following your logic , therefore its forced upon
the women to suckle the baby and not to expect
any form of compensation. That is the christian
values as derived by from your bible of which
the women have got no rights. You being deceptive
is trying to tie biblical laws to the law from
the Quran. Very sneaky yeah ....
Post by donie
Btw why would you jump to the issue of 'alimony'? If you read
carefully, the 65:1-6 verses are referring to provision during 'iddat'
period, which for the case of divorced pregnant women would be up to
time of delivery. Do you read otherwise?
bit part of verse65:6
'... and if they suckle your (offspring), give them their
 recompense: ...'
You agreed : '...suckle the baby on payment bases ...'
Isn't compensation for child maintenance = alimony?
                       Islam        Christianity
1. Custody of          mother         father
   children         (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony              must          no need
3. Divorce pregnant      NO             OK
   wives
4. Rights to           shared      woman no rights
   children
ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
           Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
           from her husband – she must not take
           his children, his property, his money.
           Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
           a violation of the commandment "thou
           shalt not steal"...'
Interesting point here is that you have been very
evasive when biblical divorce laws have been
brought up for comparison. Are you embarrassed by
the unjust biblical divorce laws? This clearly
demonstrate that you christians are not in any
moral ground to judge others as you biblical
divorce law is a hell lot more unjust and barbaric
to women.
Count of you refusing to answer the question = 35
You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.
Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?
sam1528
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-21 15:12:53 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 21, 4:11 pm, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--

I am going to expose you again in your deception.
You have already admitted of the '...hypothetical
divorced wives..' that you presented. Therefore
what you have presented so far is based on
speculation or bull shit that you coined up. You
admitted that the prophet had never divorced his
wives.

If there has never been a divorce , what is this
bull shit about :
1. the divorced wives of Muhammat, do not want to
suckle their own babies
2. they are already and effectively divorced.
Muhammat fails to negotiate with them.
(your post of oct21 , 11.33pm)

This is your fantasy not facts. You can't argue on
facts then you made up a story and argue on the
made up story. Its very poor isn't it?
Post by donie
It's up to you if you don't consider your glorious qoran, in this case
ATH TALAAW 65:1-6 as FACTS. I have been reading you these verses over
and over since you don't feel comfortable at all reading them
seriously.
You have been caught red handed trying to bull shit.
Now you are backtracking. The Quranic verses are facts
to us muslims but the 'HYPOTHETICAL DIVORCED WIVES'
is coming from your fantasy NOT FACTS. Until now you
cannot even prove that it is lawful to divorce pregnant
wives as verse 65:4 clearly states the prohibition. You
then do what you do best - bull shit and then hope that
no one discover your bull shit.

--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
For argument sake , lets follow your logic ,
'... your Allah was further suggesting a heartless
 deal for the divorced wives to suckle the baby on
 payment bases ...'
Isn't it the women's right whether she wants to
suckle the baby or not. It is also her right to
demand for alimony for child maintenance. It is
also her right to refuse any kind of alimony if
it doesn't meet her expectation.
May I remind you the real issue here is the profoundly cruel and
HEARTLESS character of your Allah in making lawful for your GREAT
PROPHET to divorce his wives, let alone those PREGNANT,  and to
advocate negotiation to the divorced wives when the divorces take
effect.  ALIMONY normally used to refer to regular children support,
never meant to recompense suckling  as projected by your Allah in QS
65:6
Another 'hypothetical divorced wives' type of
bull shit. You admitted that it is a fact that the
prophet never divorced his wives. Then argue on
facts not fantasy.

bit part of verse65:1
'...When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their
prescribed periods ...'
bit part of verse65:4 :
'...for those who carry (life within their wombs),
their period is until they deliver their burdens...'

You boast of 'superior' comprehension but something
as simple as verse65:1 & 4 , you have problems in
comprehending. Either that , you are as usual being
deceptive and trying to twist the verses to suit your
equivocation of 'divorcing pregnant women'. Caught
you again red handed. You have virtually been stripped
naked with the amount of times that you have been
caught equivocating.

Don't divorced couples negotiate on what is the
next cause of action? Wait christians do not
do that , everything goes to the husband and
nothing to the wives , in a sense its non
negotiable.
ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
from her husband – she must not take
his children, his property, his money.
Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
a violation of the commandment "thou
shalt not steal"...'

Now you bring up '...ALIMONY normally used to
refer to regular children support , never meant
to recompense suckling ...'. What are you trying
to bull shit here?

Legal definition of alimony :
ref : http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/C/ChildSupport.aspx
excerpt : '...Periodic money payments payable by a
non-custodial parent, to the custodial
parent, for the care of his or her minor
child...'
bit part of verse65:6 : '...and if they suckle your
(offspring), give them their
recompense: ...'

About identical isn't it. Poof! there goes your so
called 'alimony' argument. Try to do better the next
time.

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 36

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-22 15:27:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
I am going to expose you again in your deception.
You have already admitted of the '...hypothetical
divorced wives..' that you presented. Therefore
what you have presented so far is based on
speculation or bull shit that you coined up. You
admitted that the prophet had never divorced his
wives.
If there has never been a divorce , what is this
1. the divorced wives of Muhammat, do not want to
   suckle their own babies
2. they are already and effectively divorced.
   Muhammat fails to negotiate with them.
(your post of oct21 , 11.33pm)
If that's bullshitting it is from your GLORIOUS qoran. Why would your
Allah advocate such devilish arrangement, "recompense them for their
suckling services," "if they don't want, find other women to
suckle?"
Post by s***@hotmail.com
This is your fantasy not facts. You can't argue on
facts then you made up a story and argue on the
made up story. Its very poor isn't it?
Post by donie
It's up to you if you don't consider your glorious qoran, in this case
ATH TALAAW 65:1-6 as FACTS. I have been reading you these verses over
and over since you don't feel comfortable at all reading them
seriously.
You have been caught red handed trying to bull shit.
Now you are backtracking. The Quranic verses are facts
to us muslims but the 'HYPOTHETICAL DIVORCED WIVES'
is coming from your fantasy NOT FACTS. Until now you
cannot even prove that it is lawful to divorce pregnant
wives as verse 65:4 clearly states the prohibition. You
then do what you do best - bull shit and then hope that
no one discover your bull shit.
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
For argument sake , lets follow your logic ,
'... your Allah was further suggesting a heartless
 deal for the divorced wives to suckle the baby on
 payment bases ...'
Isn't it the women's right whether she wants to
suckle the baby or not. It is also her right to
demand for alimony for child maintenance. It is
also her right to refuse any kind of alimony if
it doesn't meet her expectation.
May I remind you the real issue here is the profoundly cruel and
HEARTLESS character of your Allah in making lawful for your GREAT
PROPHET to divorce his wives, let alone those PREGNANT,  and to
advocate negotiation to the divorced wives when the divorces take
effect.  ALIMONY normally used to refer to regular children support,
never meant to recompense suckling  as projected by your Allah in QS
65:6
Another 'hypothetical divorced wives' type of
bull shit. You admitted that it is a fact that the
prophet never divorced his wives. Then argue on
facts not fantasy.
bit part of verse65:1
'...When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
 prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their
 prescribed periods ...'
'...for those who carry (life within their wombs),
 their period is until they deliver their burdens...'
You boast of 'superior' comprehension but something
as simple as verse65:1 & 4 , you have problems in
comprehending. Either that , you are as usual being
deceptive and trying to twist the verses to suit your
equivocation of 'divorcing pregnant women'. Caught
you again red handed. You have virtually been stripped
naked with the amount of times that you have been
caught equivocating.
Don't divorced couples negotiate on what is the
next cause of action? Wait christians do not
do that , everything goes to the husband and
nothing to the wives , in a sense its non
negotiable.
ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
           Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
           from her husband – she must not take
           his children, his property, his money.
           Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
           a violation of the commandment "thou
           shalt not steal"...'
Now you bring up '...ALIMONY normally used to
refer to regular children support , never meant
to recompense suckling ...'. What are you trying
to bull shit here?
ref :http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/C/ChildSupport.aspx
excerpt : '...Periodic money payments payable by a
           non-custodial parent, to the custodial
           parent, for the care of his or her minor
           child...'
bit part of verse65:6 : '...and if they suckle your
                         (offspring), give them their
                         recompense: ...'
About identical isn't it. Poof! there goes your so
called 'alimony' argument. Try to do better the next
time.
Count of you refusing to answer the question = 36
You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.
Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?
sam1528
Schen Xie Tiep™
2008-10-22 15:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
I am going to expose you again in your deception.
You have already admitted of the '...hypothetical
divorced wives..' that you presented. Therefore
what you have presented so far is based on
speculation or bull shit that you coined up. You
admitted that the prophet had never divorced his
wives.
If there has never been a divorce , what is this
1. the divorced wives of Muhammat, do not want to
   suckle their own babies
2. they are already and effectively divorced.
   Muhammat fails to negotiate with them.
(your post of oct21 , 11.33pm)
If that's bullshitting it is from your GLORIOUS qoran. Why would your
Allah advocate such devilish arrangement, "recompense them for their
suckling services," "if they don't want, find other women to
suckle?"
okay conclusion is, Its very lawful and okay for Mohammed to
practise and perform SINFUL things, as he is allowed to exercise
his privileges as a nabie of the Moon God, alloh swt

very sound and clear conclusion there is
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-22 17:27:43 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 22, 11:27 pm, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--

Lets us first expose the bull shit nature of your
argument. You argument is on conjecture not facts.
You admitted of the '...hypothetical divorced
wives...' which is the basis of your argument.
Therefore your argument is actually 'hypothetical
bullshit' as you admitted that the prophet had
never divorced his wives.

--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
If there has never been a divorce , what is this
1. the divorced wives of Muhammat, do not want to
   suckle their own babies
2. they are already and effectively divorced.
   Muhammat fails to negotiate with them.
(your post of oct21 , 11.33pm)
If that's bullshitting it is from your GLORIOUS qoran. Why would your
Allah advocate such devilish arrangement, "recompense them for their
suckling services," "if they don't want, find other women to
suckle?"
Exposing you again , this really show that you have
not been objective but trying to bullshit your way
through hoping others will catch on to your bull
shit.

Legal definition of alimony :
ref :http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/C/ChildSupport.aspx
excerpt : '...Periodic money payments payable by a
non-custodial parent, to the custodial
parent, for the care of his or her minor
child...'

Definition from individual retirement account (IRA) :
ref : http://www.aicpa.org/pubs/taxadv/online/ttaclin.htm
excerpt : '...Alimony Is Compensation for Purposes
of IRA Contributions...'

bit part of verse65:6 : '...and if they suckle your
(offspring), give them their
recompense: ...'

Oops , got you again. Looks like the legal definition
of alimony is compensation. It ties in perfectly with
the message of 'recompense' in verse65:6.

For the case of wet nurse :
Citing from nick 'rangkampo...' and thanking him :
ref :
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=biABXOXrajYC&dq=Global+strategy+for+infant+and+young+child+feeding&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=1jA4d9aUSQ&sig=PhCr8z2OsaqgnPbYbJ8T6iXtWVs&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA10,M1

excerpt : '...The vast majority of mothers can and
should breastfeed...... For those few
situations where infants cannot ......be
breastfed ...... the choice of the best
alternative .....breast milk from a healty
wet nurse or human milk bank.....'
- source Global Strategy for Infant and
Young Child Feeding - Exercising
other feeding options page 10

ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breastfeeding
excerpt : '...According to a WHO 2001 report,[10]
alternatives to breastfeeding include:
* breast milk from a healthy wet-nurse
or a human-milk bank...'

Even the WHO recommend wet nurse if the mother in one
way or another cannot (or do not want to) suckle the
babies. Looks like the WHO and the Quran has the same
strategy for infant survival.

This further exposes the bull shit nature of your
argument. You should have heard of the phrase -
'bull shit walks ....'

Wait we know why you have problems with alimony and
wet nursing :
ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
from her husband – she must not take
his children, his property, his money.
Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
a violation of the commandment "thou
shalt not steal"...'

In your bible women gets NOTHING. You are trying to
enforce the absurd biblical law. Be objective not
christian.

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 37

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-23 20:21:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
ref :http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/C/ChildSupport.aspx
excerpt : '...Periodic money payments payable by a
           non-custodial parent, to the custodial
           parent, for the care of his or her minor
           child...'
ref :http://www.aicpa.org/pubs/taxadv/online/ttaclin.htm
excerpt : '...Alimony Is Compensation for Purposes
           of IRA Contributions...'
bit part of verse65:6 : '...and if they suckle your
                         (offspring), give them their
                         recompense: ...'
Oops , got you again. Looks like the legal definition
of alimony is compensation. It ties in perfectly with
the message of 'recompense' in verse65:6.
Only in Islam you regard ALIMONY for breastfeeding only as explicitly
stated by your Allah in QS 65:6. Just because your GREAT PROPHET
wanted more rooms for himself to indulge his carnal lust, he managed
to order a threat (tantamount to casting TERROR in their heart) to his
wives in this 65:1-6. Just because your Muhamamt wanted freedom in
womanizing you all quick to find excuses. You even try to cover up
cruelness of your allah in making such hypothetical divorces (to
threaten muhammat's wives) by twisting SUCKLING FOR PAYMENT as
ALIMONY.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-24 06:57:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
ref :http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/C/ChildSupport.aspx
excerpt : '...Periodic money payments payable by a
           non-custodial parent, to the custodial
           parent, for the care of his or her minor
           child...'
ref :http://www.aicpa.org/pubs/taxadv/online/ttaclin.htm
excerpt : '...Alimony Is Compensation for Purposes
           of IRA Contributions...'
bit part of verse65:6 : '...and if they suckle your
                         (offspring), give them their
                         recompense: ...'
Oops , got you again. Looks like the legal definition
of alimony is compensation. It ties in perfectly with
the message of 'recompense' in verse65:6.
Let us expose you again in your attempt in deception.
First you argue on - '...devilish arrangement,
"recompense them for their suckling services," "if
they don't want, find other women to suckle?"...'

However when pointed out that legally alimony is a
form of compensation and wet nurse is also recommended
by WHO , you realised that your 'HYPOTHETICAL DIVORCED
WIVES' type of argument has been very weak.

You now flip flop in your argument and now bring up
another topic as a diversion. Therefore you have ran
away again as you could not even provide any answers
to the counter argument. My advice again - be
objective not christian.
Post by donie
Only in Islam you regard ALIMONY for breastfeeding only as explicitly
stated by your Allah in QS 65:6. Just because your GREAT PROPHET
wanted more rooms for himself to indulge his carnal lust, he managed
to order a threat (tantamount to casting TERROR in their heart) to his
wives in this 65:1-6. Just because your Muhamamt wanted freedom in
womanizing you all quick to find excuses. You even try to cover up
cruelness of your allah in making such hypothetical divorces (to
threaten muhammat's wives) by twisting SUCKLING FOR PAYMENT as
ALIMONY.
Isn't breastfeeding child maintenance? If even that
you do not know , you have a big problem. In the
case for child maintenance , alimony is a must
whether its suckling babies of taking care of kids.

You really subscribe to the absurd christian law of
which the divorced wives gets NOTHING.
ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
from her husband – she must not take
his children, his property, his money.
Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
a violation of the commandment "thou
shalt not steal"...'

In your bible women gets NOTHING. You are trying to
enforce the absurd biblical law. Be objective not
christian. No wonder you are so very much against
alimony.

Carnal lust? You have already refuted , smoked and
kapowed your own argument. If carnal lust is the
objective why then (quotation from you)

1. '...she was old and her body sagging...' , taken
from your post of oct20 , 7.38am from thread
'Fearing that the GREAT PROPHET would divorce
her, SAUDA b Zam'ah gave up her turn to Aiysha'.
Why marry an old and divorced lady? Your argument
does not makes sense (when did your argument
made sense anyway).

2. Your post of aug9 , 11.21pm in thread 'Proof?' :
*******************
At least 4 just from the list below:

1.Khadija: the rich widow he married, they maintained faithful
monogamy for 25 years until her death did them apart. From several
historical accounts he married on average someone new every year
during his remaining life (13 years?). Don't you ever question
why he suddenly revolutionized his matrimonial habit?

2.Sauda: Widow of Mecca. May fall under your category: CARE FOR
WIDOWS.

3.Aysha: betrothed at 7, consummated at her 9th year of age. May be
politically correct at that time to further cement the bond with his
right hand man Abu Bakr. The age might also be culturally proper at
that time.

4.Hafsyah binti Umar: VIRGIN? Also for furtherance of his alliance
with Umar, his follower?

5.Zainab. Widow of his adopted son Zeid. To care for widow? If he
was a great prophet couldn't he SAVE THE MARRIAGE instead of only
saving the widow for himself?

6.Mary the Copt: Chosen from two Christian slaves given by Egypt
Governor Al-Mouqawqas. What would be the base of his SELECTION over
the less fair Serena?

7.Juwariyah: The captive and BEAUTIFUL widow of a defeated tribe
chief?

8.Raihana: A Jewess widow and orphan of a defeated tribe. Offered
marriage but stayed slave and JEWESS? Why wouldn't he give some
of the captives to his followers to cement further brotherhood?

9.Safiya: The defeated Khaibar Jew leader's widow.

10.Um Habiba: Widowed daughter of Abu Sufyan, separated from her
apostate husband.

11.Maimuna: A political marriage to gain important converts Khalid
Ibn al Waleed and Amr.

12.There are a number of other names in his life. Many slaves at that
time were treated as concubines.
************************

Point 12 is utter rubbish as you could not even
provide any proof or evidence.

In this case you have already refuted yourself even
before you started. You confirmed the purpose of the
prophet's polygamous marriage and then you started
with your so called conspiracy theory based on the
phrase 'THOU THY BEAUTY ATTRACT THEE'. Too bad for
you , you again have refuted , smoked and kapowed
your argument , this time before it started.


You actually refuted , smoked and kapowed your own
arguments. Told you that you are a clueless
christian running around in circles chasing your
own backside.

Now it is casting 'terror' in the hearts of his
wives. Your absurdity knows no bounds. You cannot
even produce any evidence of
1. The prophet ever divorced his wives
2. Threat to divorce his wives
Wait , you did admit that the prophet never divorced
his wives. You also admitted that your argument is
based on 'HYPOTHETICAL DIVORCED WIVES'. Therefore
1. You admitted that divorce never happened
2. Your argument is based on fantasy or hypothetical
case NOT FACTS.
My advice again : be objective not christian.

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 38

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-24 23:26:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Let us expose you again in your attempt in deception.
First you argue on - '...devilish arrangement,
"recompense them for their suckling services," "if
they don't want, find other women to suckle?"...'
However when pointed out that legally alimony is a
form of compensation and wet nurse is also recommended
by WHO , you realised that your 'HYPOTHETICAL DIVORCED
WIVES' type of argument has been very weak.
You now flip flop in your argument and now bring up
another topic as a diversion. Therefore you have ran
away again as you could not even provide any answers
to the counter argument. My advice again - be
objective not christian.
Post by donie
Only in Islam you regard ALIMONY for breastfeeding only as explicitly
stated by your Allah in QS 65:6. Just because your GREAT PROPHET
wanted more rooms for himself to indulge his carnal lust, he managed
to order a threat (tantamount to casting TERROR in their heart) to his
wives in this 65:1-6. Just because your Muhamamt wanted freedom in
womanizing you all quick to find excuses. You even try to cover up
cruelness of your allah in making such hypothetical divorces (to
threaten muhammat's wives) by twisting SUCKLING FOR PAYMENT as
ALIMONY.
Isn't breastfeeding child maintenance? If even that
you do not know , you have a big problem. In the
case for child maintenance , alimony is a must
whether its suckling babies of taking care of kids.
Now that you conform the main issue here (Lawfull for GREAT PROPHET to
divorce pregnant women), we may want to delve on the secondary issue
of suckling the new born babies arrangement, anticipated by your
Allah, when the law he issued would be taking effect.

Devilish suckling arrangement may sound too strong if not combined
with the devilish law itself. Imagine the feeling of the hypothetical
divorced wives. They would be divorced during their pregnancy. their
grave sorrow when they are counting the days until the IDDAT which
would be the delivery day. Imagine their feeling when confronting the
proposal from Muhammat party to breastfeed the babies now belong to
Muhammat only. That's why I couldn't help but appealing for your
emotion, think of your mother or your sisters if the have to face
similar position. Unless you toggle your emotion I don't think you'll
ever understand the grave predicament your allah ordained for
women.

You point to the issue of breastfeeding in general. Irrelevant. The
issue here relates to feeling, to HEART. Your Allah doesn't seem to
have a heart of empathy for women, and in his 65:6 arrangement treat
breastfeeding women as merely commercial object.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-25 15:40:10 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 25, 7:26 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Isn't breastfeeding child maintenance? If even that
you do not know , you have a big problem. In the
case for child maintenance , alimony is a must
whether its suckling babies of taking care of kids.
Exposing you again. You have until now been very
deceptive as in the Quran it is not permitted to
divorce your pregnant wife.
bit part of verses65:1&4
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. '...When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their
prescribed periods ...'
4. '...for those who carry (life within their wombs),
their period is until they deliver their burdens
...'

You in your deception want to substitute deut24:1 to
be the verse of the Quran hoping that no one will
notice as deut24:1 gives full power of divorce to the
man and he can divorce the wife even though she is
pregnant and then kick her out of his house. Very
sneaky of you yeah ...
deut24:1
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
and it come to pass that she find no favour in
his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement,
and give it in her hand, and send her out of his
house.
Post by donie
Now that you conform the main issue here (Lawfull for GREAT PROPHET to
divorce pregnant women), we may want to delve on the secondary issue
of suckling the new born babies arrangement, anticipated by your
Allah, when the law he issued would be taking effect.
Even your title is wrong. However we all know that
you in your deception have been trying to substitute
deut24:1 to be the verse of the quran. You hope that
no one will notice ..... wrong , you have again been
caught ...

Lets look into divorce and iddah :
ref : http://www.mail-archive.com/***@yahoogroups.com/msg07982.html
excerpt : '... The word Iddah is derived from the
Arabic word al-Adad meaning the number,
in the terminology of the shariah it
means a period of waiting from re-marriage
after the death of her husband or her
separation or divorce from him...'
'...Generally jurists identify two functions
for the iddah period. The first allows for
a period of reconciliation between a husband
and wife such that whatever issue is dividing
them may somehow be addressed and overcome
thus avoiding a divorce. The second is more
functional, to ensure that the woman is not
pregnant...'
- source : Shariah the Islamic Law, Doi, ch
13, abridged

Definition of divorce :
ref : http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d187.htm
excerpt : The dissolution of a marriage contracted
between a man and a woman, by the judgment
of a court of competent jurisdiction, or
(Obs.) by an act of the legislature.

By legal definition , divorce is enforced , upon the
dissolution of marriage. Therefore during iddah , it
is not divorce but a cooling off period to enable
the couple work on their differences. In legal terms
divorce only comes into the picture after the iddah.

Oops got you again , what is it you said - '...divorce
of pregnant wives ....'. Another one of your fantasy
I guess.
Post by donie
Devilish suckling arrangement may sound too strong if not combined
with the devilish  law itself. Imagine the feeling of the hypothetical
divorced wives. They would be divorced during their pregnancy. their
grave sorrow when they are counting the days until the IDDAT which
would be the delivery day. Imagine their feeling when confronting the
proposal from Muhammat party to breastfeed the babies now belong to
Muhammat only. That's why I couldn't help but appealing for your
emotion, think of your mother or your sisters if the have to face
similar position. Unless you toggle your emotion I don't think you'll
ever understand the grave predicament your allah ordained for
women.
Your key argument has always been 'HYPOTHETICAL'.
Therefore your argument has been based on stories
not facts. No wonder you appeal to emotions in
an effort to present your argument as you do not
have the facts. Factually :
1. Prophet Muhammad (saw) never divorced his wives
as admitted by you.
2. As pointed out earlier , legally divorce is only
after the iddah.

Now you say imagine this and that. Why argue based
on fantasy , emotions and imagination? These are not
facts. Now you bring up suckling of babies. Another
one of your fantasy claim of : '...breastfeed the
babies now belong to Muhammat only ...'. Exposing
you again. The Quran in verse65:6 has explicitly
stated that if there is difficulty in the suckling
arrangement with the mother , look for a wet nurse.
This is perfectly in line with the WHO recommendation
of wet nurse.
Verse65:6 in bit part
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
5. '... if they suckle your (offspring)...And if ye
find yourselves in difficulties , let another
woman suckle (the child) on the (father's)
behalf...'
Citing from nick 'rangkampo...' and thanking him :
ref :
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=biABXOXrajYC&dq=Global+strateg...

excerpt : '...The vast majority of mothers can and
should breastfeed...... For those few
situations where infants cannot ......be
breastfed ...... the choice of the best
alternative .....breast milk from a healty
wet nurse or human milk bank.....'
- source Global Strategy for Infant and
Young Child Feeding - Exercising
other feeding options page 10

ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breastfeeding
excerpt : '...According to a WHO 2001 report,[10]
alternatives to breastfeeding include:
* breast milk from a healthy wet-nurse
or a human-milk bank...'

Even the WHO recommend wet nurse if the mother in one
way or another cannot (or do not want to) suckle the
babies. Looks like the WHO and the Quran has the same
strategy for infant survival.
Post by donie
You point to the issue of breastfeeding in general. Irrelevant. The
issue here relates to feeling, to HEART. Your Allah doesn't seem to
have a heart of empathy for women, and in his 65:6 arrangement treat
breastfeeding women as merely commercial object.
Oh I see now it a matter of the heart and imaginative
appeal to emotions. Ok lets look at your christian
values as derived from your bible :

deut24:1
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
and it come to pass that she find no favour in
his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
in her: then let him write her a bill of
divorcement , and give it in her hand, and send
her out of his house.
- the husband can divorce his wife regardless if she
is pregnant and kick her out of the house.

ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
from her husband – she must not take
his children, his property, his money.
Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
a violation of the commandment "thou
shalt not steal"...'

In your bible women gets NOTHING , ZERO , ZILTH.
No child rights ..... nothing. All is the property
of the male. Not even to suckle the baby.

Lets look at your appeal to emotion : '...appealing
for your emotion, think of your mother or your
sisters if the have to face similar position...'

Look at the situation of you christians. You are far
worse. Women or pregnant women can be divorced with
no cooling off period (ie. without iddah). The
divorced wives has got NO rights to anything. The
divorced wives do not even get the first right of
refusal of suckling their babies. Lets do a table
of comparison :
Islam christianity
1. Custody of mother father
children (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony must no need
3. Divorce pregnant NO OK
wives
4. Rights to shared woman no rights
children
5. Right of refusal mother non existant as
to suckle baby the divorced wife
has got NO rights
to the baby

You appeal to emotion on the more compassionate
islamic law whereas your christian laws per your
bible is a lot more barbaric and thuggish when it
comes to the treatment and rights of divorced
women.

Are you practicing deception or you are really nuts?
By right you should be emotional over your barbaric
and thuggish christian laws as per your bible over
the mistreatment and denial of rights of divorced
women (in christianity).

Funny person you are. This definately exposes you
as a clueless christian who does not even realise
the barbaric and thuggish biblical laws in the
mistreatment and denial of rights of the divorced
women.

Didn't I advised you : be objective not christian.

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 39

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-27 21:34:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Isn't breastfeeding child maintenance? If even that
you do not know , you have a big problem. In the
case for child maintenance , alimony is a must
whether its suckling babies of taking care of kids.
Exposing you again. You have until now been very
deceptive as in the Quran it is not permitted to
divorce your pregnant wife.
bit part of verses65:1&4
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. '...When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
    prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their
    prescribed periods ...'
4. '...for those who carry (life within their wombs),
    their period is until they deliver their burdens
    ...'
If you care to read what you post. Let me re-write the above: "4.
'..FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THIER WOMBS), THEIR PERIOD IS
UNTIL THEY DELIVER THEIR BURDENS." Doesn't that read PREGNANT to you?
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-28 17:56:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Isn't breastfeeding child maintenance? If even that
you do not know , you have a big problem. In the
case for child maintenance , alimony is a must
whether its suckling babies of taking care of kids.
Exposing you again. You have until now been very
deceptive as in the Quran it is not permitted to
divorce your pregnant wife.
bit part of verses65:1&4
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. '...When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
    prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their
    prescribed periods ...'
4. '...for those who carry (life within their wombs),
    their period is until they deliver their burdens
    ...'
If you care to read what you post. Let me re-write the above: "4.
'..FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THIER WOMBS), THEIR PERIOD IS
UNTIL THEY DELIVER THEIR BURDENS." Doesn't that read PREGNANT to you?
Looks like you are shying away from your core
argument. Referring to the table of comparison
between islam and christianity in the treatment
of divorced wives etc , the christian law is so
much barbaric and thuggish.

The can you confirm to me what is iddah? Then refer
to the legal definition of divorce.

What does '... THEIR PERIOD IS UNTIL THEY DELIVER
THEIR BURDENS...' means?

My advice again : be objective not christian.

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 40

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-29 05:28:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
bit part of verses65:1&4
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. '...When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
    prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their
    prescribed periods ...'
4. '...for those who carry (life within their wombs),
    their period is until they deliver their burdens
    ...'
If you care to read what you post. Let me re-write the above: "4.
'..FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THIER WOMBS), THEIR PERIOD IS
UNTIL THEY DELIVER THEIR BURDENS." Doesn't that read PREGNANT to you?
Looks like you are shying away from your core
argument. Referring to the table of comparison
between islam and christianity in the treatment
of divorced wives etc , the christian law is so
much barbaric and thuggish.
The can you confirm to me what is iddah? Then refer
to the legal definition of divorce.
What does '... THEIR PERIOD IS UNTIL THEY DELIVER
THEIR BURDENS...' means?
Period here means iddat, for PREGNANT WOMEN that would be until they
delivery their babies as ordained by your Allah.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-29 07:52:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
bit part of verses65:1&4
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. '...When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
    prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their
    prescribed periods ...'
4. '...for those who carry (life within their wombs),
    their period is until they deliver their burdens
    ...'
If you care to read what you post. Let me re-write the above: "4.
'..FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THIER WOMBS), THEIR PERIOD IS
UNTIL THEY DELIVER THEIR BURDENS." Doesn't that read PREGNANT to you?
Looks like you are shying away from your core
argument. Referring to the table of comparison
between islam and christianity in the treatment
of divorced wives etc , the christian law is so
much barbaric and thuggish.
The can you confirm to me what is iddah? Then refer
to the legal definition of divorce.
What does '... THEIR PERIOD IS UNTIL THEY DELIVER
THEIR BURDENS...' means?
Period here means iddat, for PREGNANT WOMEN that would be until they
delivery their babies as ordained by your Allah.
Then why : (bit part of verse65:1)
'...When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their
prescribed periods...'

The hadith to support of such :
ref : http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/063.sbt.html
Volume 7, Book 63, Number 178:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
that he had divorced his wife while she was
menstruating during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle.
'Umar bin Al-Khattab asked Allah's Apostle about
that. Allah's Apostle said, "Order him (your son)
to take her back and keep her till she is clean and
then to wait till she gets her next period and
becomes clean again, whereupon, if he wishes to
keep her, he can do so, and if he wishes to divorce
her he can divorce her before having sexual
intercourse with her; and that is the prescribed
period which Allah has fixed for the women meant
to be divorced."

In addition you have conveniently made yourself
ignorant of what has been posted. To repeat :
ref : http://www.mail-archive.com/***@yahoogroups.com/msg07982.html
excerpt : '... The word Iddah is derived from the
Arabic word al-Adad meaning the number,
in the terminology of the shariah it
means a period of waiting from re-marriage
after the death of her husband or her
separation or divorce from him...'
'...Generally jurists identify two functions
for the iddah period. The first allows for
a period of reconciliation between a husband
and wife such that whatever issue is dividing
them may somehow be addressed and overcome
thus avoiding a divorce. The second is more
functional, to ensure that the woman is not
pregnant...'
- source : Shariah the Islamic Law, Doi, ch
13, abridged

Definition of divorce :
ref : http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d187.htm
excerpt : The dissolution of a marriage contracted
between a man and a woman, by the judgment
of a court of competent jurisdiction, or
(Obs.) by an act of the legislature.

By legal definition , divorce is enforced , upon the
dissolution of marriage. Therefore during iddah , it
is not divorce but a cooling off period to enable
the couple work on their differences. In legal terms
divorce only comes into the picture after the iddah.

Hmmmm, 'superior' comprehension of yours .....

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 41

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-30 05:40:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
bit part of verses65:1&4
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. '...When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
    prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their
    prescribed periods ...'
4. '...for those who carry (life within their wombs),
    their period is until they deliver their burdens
    ...'
If you care to read what you post. Let me re-write the above: "4.
'..FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THIER WOMBS), THEIR PERIOD IS
UNTIL THEY DELIVER THEIR BURDENS." Doesn't that read PREGNANT to you?
Looks like you are shying away from your core
argument. Referring to the table of comparison
between islam and christianity in the treatment
of divorced wives etc , the christian law is so
much barbaric and thuggish.
The can you confirm to me what is iddah? Then refer
to the legal definition of divorce.
What does '... THEIR PERIOD IS UNTIL THEY DELIVER
THEIR BURDENS...' means?
Period here means iddat, for PREGNANT WOMEN that would be until they
delivery their babies as ordained by your Allah.
Then why : (bit part of verse65:1)
'...When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
 prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their
 prescribed periods...'
ref :http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/063.sbt...
that he had divorced his wife while she was
menstruating during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle.
'Umar bin Al-Khattab asked Allah's Apostle about
that. Allah's Apostle said, "Order him (your son)
to take her back and keep her till she is clean and
then to wait till she gets her next period and
becomes clean again, whereupon, if he wishes to
keep her, he can do so, and if he wishes to divorce
her he can divorce her before having sexual
intercourse with her; and that is the prescribed
period which Allah has fixed for the women meant
to be divorced."
In addition you have conveniently made yourself
excerpt : '... The word Iddah is derived from the
           Arabic word al-Adad meaning the number,
           in the terminology of the shariah it
           means a period of waiting from re-marriage
           after the death of her husband or her
           separation or divorce from him...'
          '...Generally jurists identify two functions
           for the iddah period. The first allows for
           a period of reconciliation between a husband
           and wife such that whatever issue is dividing
           them may somehow be addressed and overcome
           thus avoiding a divorce. The second is more
           functional, to ensure that the woman is not
           pregnant...'
           - source : Shariah the Islamic Law, Doi, ch
                      13, abridged
Why are refraining from discussing 65:1-6 on divorcing PREGNANT wives
made lawful by your Allah for Muhammat. Do your consider this
allowance as one of muhammat GREATNESS?
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-30 11:09:33 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 30, 1:40 pm, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--

To expose you again as you do not even have any
standards in your argument :
1. You complain about first cousin marriages. Your
bible allows first cousin marriages. Joseph and
mary were first cousins.
2. You equivocate about zainab but zainab was never
the prophet's daughter in law.
3. You equivocate about the prophet marrying the wife
of others with no proof or evidence. However your
biblical david lusted after bathsheba , the wife of
uriah , bedded her and got her pregnant and then
sent her husband , uriah to die in battle.

In all cases you christians and your biblical laws
and values is so much more crude , barbaric and
thuggish.

--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
ref :http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/063.sbt...
that he had divorced his wife while she was
menstruating during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle.
'Umar bin Al-Khattab asked Allah's Apostle about
that. Allah's Apostle said, "Order him (your son)
to take her back and keep her till she is clean and
then to wait till she gets her next period and
becomes clean again, whereupon, if he wishes to
keep her, he can do so, and if he wishes to divorce
her he can divorce her before having sexual
intercourse with her; and that is the prescribed
period which Allah has fixed for the women meant
to be divorced."
In addition you have conveniently made yourself
excerpt : '... The word Iddah is derived from the
           Arabic word al-Adad meaning the number,
           in the terminology of the shariah it
           means a period of waiting from re-marriage
           after the death of her husband or her
           separation or divorce from him...'
          '...Generally jurists identify two functions
           for the iddah period. The first allows for
           a period of reconciliation between a husband
           and wife such that whatever issue is dividing
           them may somehow be addressed and overcome
           thus avoiding a divorce. The second is more
           functional, to ensure that the woman is not
           pregnant...'
           - source : Shariah the Islamic Law, Doi, ch
                      13, abridged
Why are refraining from discussing 65:1-6 on divorcing PREGNANT wives
made lawful by your Allah for Muhammat. Do your consider this
allowance as one of muhammat GREATNESS?
The problem here is with you. It has already been
pointed out that legally divorce is after iddah ,
therefore in legal terms , there is no divorce of
pregnant wives. Moreover you admitted that the
prophet never divorced any of his wives. You again
admitted that your argument is based on 'HYPOTHETICAL
DIVORCED' wives. What kind of argument is that?
As far as I know , only idiots or lunatics argue on
hypothetical issues. The rest of the sane people
who live in the real world argue on facts.

However you are just like a overgrown baby who
cannot accept defeat. Your point have been
thoroughly refuted and now you are sitting and
kicking your legs crying. You do not have any
counter argument. You are just repeating the
already refuted arguments over and over again.
The answers will still be the same. Verses65:1-6
have been very clear on the prohibition of
divorce of pregnant wives. This coupled with
the commentary , hadith and the legal definition
of divorce.

You until now have absolutely NO counter argument.
You only repeat already refuted arguments. Not
very good of you yeah ...

Another point is that you have no standards in
your argument. The christian or biblical laws of
divorce is a lot more barbaric and thuggish.
consider the following :

ref : http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
from her husband – she must not take
his children, his property, his money.
Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
a violation of the commandment "thou
shalt not steal".
deut24:1
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
and it come to pass that she find no favour in
his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
in her: then let him write her a bill of
divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
her out of his house.

a table of comparison :
Islam christianity
1. Custody of mother father
children (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony must no need
3. Divorce pregnant NO OK
wives
4. Rights to shared woman no rights
children
5. Right of refusal mother non existant as
to suckle baby the divorced wife
has got NO rights
to the baby

My advice again : be objective not christian

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 42

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-10-30 20:18:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by donie
Why are refraining from discussing 65:1-6 on divorcing PREGNANT wives
made lawful by your Allah for Muhammat? Do your consider this
allowance as one of muhammat GREATNESS?
The problem here is with you. It has already been
pointed out that legally divorce is after iddah ,
therefore in legal terms , there is no divorce of
The difference is only the time. Muhammat could already declare to
divorce his PREGNANT WIVES but the divorce would take effect after
they deliver the babies. It's CRUEL for the PREGNANT woman. Only
people without emotion that would not have empathy toward such
predicament. While looking forward to have their beloved baby, they
live in sorrow counting the days when they will be separated from
their precious husband in Muhammat and the babies they look forward
to.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
pregnant wives. Moreover you admitted that the
prophet never divorced any of his wives. You again
admitted that your argument is based on 'HYPOTHETICAL
DIVORCED' wives. What kind of argument is that?
As far as I know , only idiots or lunatics argue on
hypothetical issues. The rest of the sane people
who live in the real world argue on facts.
Yet you don't have courage to question why your Allah need to reveal
such a CRUEL and MISOGYNIST law.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-31 13:00:14 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 31, 4:18 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--

Exposing you again :
1. Your argument has been devoid of facts. You
admitted that the prophet never divorced
his wives. You also admitted to 'HYPOTHETICAL
DIVORCED' wives type of argument. As you
cannot present facts , you try to appeal to
emotions. Very poor argument argument from
you.
2. You do not even have the moral standing to
even compare divorce laws between islam and
christianity. The biblical laws of divorce is
barbaric and thuggish with respect to women.
ref : http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
from her husband – she must not take
his children, his property, his money.
Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
a violation of the commandment "thou
shalt not steal"...'
deut24:1
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
and it come to pass that she find no favour in
his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
in her: then let him write her a bill of
divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
her out of his house.

a table of comparison :
Islam christianity
1. Custody of mother father
children (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony must no need
3. Divorce pregnant NO OK
wives
4. Rights to shared woman no rights
children
5. Right of refusal mother non existant as
to suckle baby the divorced wife
has got NO rights
to the baby
Post by donie
The difference is only the time. Muhammat could already declare to
divorce his PREGNANT WIVES but the divorce would take effect after
they deliver the babies. It's CRUEL for the PREGNANT woman.  Only
people without emotion that would not have empathy toward such
predicament. While looking forward to have their beloved baby, they
live in sorrow counting the days when they will be separated from
their precious husband in Muhammat and the babies they look forward
to.
Oh ..... so now you agree that in islam , as
opposed to christianity , prohibits the divorce
of pregnant wives. Christianity allows the divorce
of pregnant wives. Of course its a matter of
timing. The women cannot be pregnant forever.

Looks like you are describing christianity as above.
Are you sure you are not practicing deception again
, substituting the biblical laws to the islamic
laws and hoping no one noticed? Looks like it isn't
it? In the end your sob story is all about your
biblical laws and christianity. Oops , got you
again. Be honest the next time.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
pregnant wives. Moreover you admitted that the
prophet never divorced any of his wives. You again
admitted that your argument is based on 'HYPOTHETICAL
DIVORCED' wives. What kind of argument is that?
As far as I know , only idiots or lunatics argue on
hypothetical issues. The rest of the sane people
who live in the real world argue on facts.
Yet you don't have courage to question why your Allah need to reveal
such a CRUEL and MISOGYNIST law.
If I look at the laws and compare them , it is very
clear that the biblical (christian) divorce laws is
crude , barbaric and thuggish. Lets look at the table
of comparison again.
a table of comparison :
Islam christianity
1. Custody of mother father
children (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony must no need
3. Divorce pregnant NO OK
wives
4. Rights to shared woman no rights
children
5. Right of refusal mother non existant as
to suckle baby the divorced wife
has got NO rights
to the baby


You should be up in arms about the crude , barbaric
and thuggish biblical (christian) laws of divorce.
Skewed logic you have.

My advice again : be objective not christian

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 43

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-04 14:48:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
1. Your argument has been devoid of facts. You
   admitted that the prophet never divorced
   his wives. You also admitted to 'HYPOTHETICAL
   DIVORCED' wives type of argument. As you
   cannot present facts , you try to appeal to
   emotions. Very poor argument argument from
   you.
2. You do not even have the moral standing to
   even compare divorce laws between islam and
   christianity. The biblical laws of divorce is
   barbaric and thuggish with respect to women.
   ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
   excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
              Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
              from her husband – she must not take
              his children, his property, his money.
              Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
              a violation of the commandment "thou
              shalt not steal"...'
   deut24:1
   ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
   [1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
       and it come to pass that she find no favour in
       his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
       in her: then let him write her a bill of
       divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
       her out of his house.
                          Islam        christianity
   1. Custody of          mother         father
      children         (more rights) (absolute rights)
   2. Alimony              must          no need
   3. Divorce pregnant      NO             OK
      wives
   4. Rights to           shared      woman no rights
      children
   5. Right of refusal     mother     non existant as
      to suckle baby                  the divorced wife
                                      has got NO rights
                                   to the baby
Post by donie
The difference is only the time. Muhammat could already declare to
divorce his PREGNANT WIVES but the divorce would take effect after
they deliver the babies. It's CRUEL for the PREGNANT woman.  Only
people without emotion that would not have empathy toward such
predicament. While looking forward to have their beloved baby, they
live in sorrow counting the days when they will be separated from
their precious husband in Muhammat and the babies they look forward
to.
Oh ..... so now you agree that in islam , as
opposed to christianity , prohibits the divorce
of pregnant wives. Christianity allows the divorce
of pregnant wives. Of course its a matter of
timing. The women cannot be pregnant forever.
Looks like you are describing christianity as above.
Are you sure you are not practicing deception again
, substituting the biblical laws to the islamic
laws and hoping no one noticed? Looks like it isn't
it? In the end your sob story is all about your
biblical laws and christianity. Oops , got you
again. Be honest the next time.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
pregnant wives. Moreover you admitted that the
prophet never divorced any of his wives. You again
admitted that your argument is based on 'HYPOTHETICAL
DIVORCED' wives. What kind of argument is that?
As far as I know , only idiots or lunatics argue on
hypothetical issues. The rest of the sane people
who live in the real world argue on facts.
Yet you don't have courage to question why your Allah need to reveal
such a CRUEL and MISOGYNIST law.
If I look at the laws and compare them , it is very
clear that the biblical (christian) divorce laws is
crude , barbaric and thuggish. Lets look at the table
of comparison again.
                      Islam        christianity
1. Custody of          mother         father
   children         (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony              must          no need
3. Divorce pregnant      NO             OK
   wives
4. Rights to           shared      woman no rights
   children
5. Right of refusal     mother     non existant as
   to suckle baby                  the divorced wife
                                   has got NO rights
                                   to the baby
You should be up in arms about the crude , barbaric
and thuggish biblical (christian) laws of divorce.
Skewed logic you have.
My advice again : be objective not christian
Count of you refusing to answer the question = 43
You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.
Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?
sam1528
Why are refraining from discussing 65:1-6 on divorcing PREGNANT wives
made lawful by your Allah for Muhammat? Do your consider this
allowance as one of muhammat GREATNESS?
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-05 11:17:28 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 4, 10:48 pm, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
1. Your argument has been devoid of facts. You
   admitted that the prophet never divorced
   his wives. You also admitted to 'HYPOTHETICAL
   DIVORCED' wives type of argument. As you
   cannot present facts , you try to appeal to
   emotions. Very poor argument argument from
   you.
2. You do not even have the moral standing to
   even compare divorce laws between islam and
   christianity. The biblical laws of divorce is
   barbaric and thuggish with respect to women.
   ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
   excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
              Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
              from her husband – she must not take
              his children, his property, his money.
              Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
              a violation of the commandment "thou
              shalt not steal"...'
   deut24:1
   ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
   [1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
       and it come to pass that she find no favour in
       his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
       in her: then let him write her a bill of
       divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
       her out of his house.
                          Islam        christianity
   1. Custody of          mother         father
      children         (more rights) (absolute rights)
   2. Alimony              must          no need
   3. Divorce pregnant      NO             OK
      wives
   4. Rights to           shared      woman no rights
      children
   5. Right of refusal     mother     non existant as
      to suckle baby                  the divorced wife
                                      has got NO rights
                                   to the baby
Post by donie
The difference is only the time. Muhammat could already declare to
divorce his PREGNANT WIVES but the divorce would take effect after
they deliver the babies. It's CRUEL for the PREGNANT woman.  Only
people without emotion that would not have empathy toward such
predicament. While looking forward to have their beloved baby, they
live in sorrow counting the days when they will be separated from
their precious husband in Muhammat and the babies they look forward
to.
Oh ..... so now you agree that in islam , as
opposed to christianity , prohibits the divorce
of pregnant wives. Christianity allows the divorce
of pregnant wives. Of course its a matter of
timing. The women cannot be pregnant forever.
Looks like you are describing christianity as above.
Are you sure you are not practicing deception again
, substituting the biblical laws to the islamic
laws and hoping no one noticed? Looks like it isn't
it? In the end your sob story is all about your
biblical laws and christianity. Oops , got you
again. Be honest the next time.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
pregnant wives. Moreover you admitted that the
prophet never divorced any of his wives. You again
admitted that your argument is based on 'HYPOTHETICAL
DIVORCED' wives. What kind of argument is that?
As far as I know , only idiots or lunatics argue on
hypothetical issues. The rest of the sane people
who live in the real world argue on facts.
Yet you don't have courage to question why your Allah need to reveal
such a CRUEL and MISOGYNIST law.
If I look at the laws and compare them , it is very
clear that the biblical (christian) divorce laws is
crude , barbaric and thuggish. Lets look at the table
of comparison again.
                      Islam        christianity
1. Custody of          mother         father
   children         (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony              must          no need
3. Divorce pregnant      NO             OK
   wives
4. Rights to           shared      woman no rights
   children
5. Right of refusal     mother     non existant as
   to suckle baby                  the divorced wife
                                   has got NO rights
                                   to the baby
You should be up in arms about the crude , barbaric
and thuggish biblical (christian) laws of divorce.
Skewed logic you have.
My advice again : be objective not christian
Count of you refusing to answer the question = 43
You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.
Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?
sam1528
Why are refraining from discussing 65:1-6 on divorcing PREGNANT wives
madelawfulby your Allah for Muhammat? Do your consider this
allowance as one of muhammat GREATNESS?
The weakness is from you not me.
1. Your argument is based on a fantasy sob story
which actually depicts the christian values of
divorce as per your bible.
2. You cannot even address the counter arguments
presented except just repeating already refuted
arguments.
3. The tafseer to the verses has been provided. You
were afraid to face the truth so you did not open
and read it. Your problem not mine.
4. You are a clueless christian , it has already been
pointed out via the tafseer & legal definition of
divorce that in islam it is prohibited to divorce
pregnant woman. You still persist on that line of
argument , looks like you are trying to equate it
to christianity as your biblical law of divorce is
crude , barbaric and thuggish to women expecially
pregnant women (as they can be divorced at the
will of the man).
5. You admitted the prophet never divorced any of
his wives.

In the end your argument is based on fantasy not
facts. Discussion is always based on facts and not
on fantasy (like all of your arguments). In the end
it has been discussed but you could not even address
any of the counter arguments. What did you do? Just
repeat already refuted arguments. It shows how poor
the is basis of your argument.

My advice again : be objective not christian

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 44

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-06 11:22:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
1. Your argument has been devoid of facts. You
   admitted that the prophet never divorced
   his wives. You also admitted to 'HYPOTHETICAL
   DIVORCED' wives type of argument. As you
   cannot present facts , you try to appeal to
   emotions. Very poor argument argument from
   you.
2. You do not even have the moral standing to
   even compare divorce laws between islam and
   christianity. The biblical laws of divorce is
   barbaric and thuggish with respect to women.
   ref :http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
   excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
              Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
              from her husband – she must not take
              his children, his property, his money.
              Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
              a violation of the commandment "thou
              shalt not steal"...'
   deut24:1
   ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
   [1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
       and it come to pass that she find no favour in
       his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
       in her: then let him write her a bill of
       divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
       her out of his house.
                          Islam        christianity
   1. Custody of          mother         father
      children         (more rights) (absolute rights)
   2. Alimony              must          no need
   3. Divorce pregnant      NO             OK
      wives
   4. Rights to           shared      woman no rights
      children
   5. Right of refusal     mother     non existant as
      to suckle baby                  the divorced wife
                                      has got NO rights
                                   to the baby
Post by donie
The difference is only the time. Muhammat could already declare to
divorce his PREGNANT WIVES but the divorce would take effect after
they deliver the babies. It's CRUEL for the PREGNANT woman.  Only
people without emotion that would not have empathy toward such
predicament. While looking forward to have their beloved baby, they
live in sorrow counting the days when they will be separated from
their precious husband in Muhammat and the babies they look forward
to.
Oh ..... so now you agree that in islam , as
opposed to christianity , prohibits the divorce
of pregnant wives. Christianity allows the divorce
of pregnant wives. Of course its a matter of
timing. The women cannot be pregnant forever.
Looks like you are describing christianity as above.
Are you sure you are not practicing deception again
, substituting the biblical laws to the islamic
laws and hoping no one noticed? Looks like it isn't
it? In the end your sob story is all about your
biblical laws and christianity. Oops , got you
again. Be honest the next time.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
pregnant wives. Moreover you admitted that the
prophet never divorced any of his wives. You again
admitted that your argument is based on 'HYPOTHETICAL
DIVORCED' wives. What kind of argument is that?
As far as I know , only idiots or lunatics argue on
hypothetical issues. The rest of the sane people
who live in the real world argue on facts.
Yet you don't have courage to question why your Allah need to reveal
such a CRUEL and MISOGYNIST law.
If I look at the laws and compare them , it is very
clear that the biblical (christian) divorce laws is
crude , barbaric and thuggish. Lets look at the table
of comparison again.
                      Islam        christianity
1. Custody of          mother         father
   children         (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony              must          no need
3. Divorce pregnant      NO             OK
   wives
4. Rights to           shared      woman no rights
   children
5. Right of refusal     mother     non existant as
   to suckle baby                  the divorced wife
                                   has got NO rights
                                   to the baby
You should be up in arms about the crude , barbaric
and thuggish biblical (christian) laws of divorce.
Skewed logic you have.
My advice again : be objective not christian
Count of you refusing to answer the question = 43
You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.
Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?
sam1528
Why are refraining from discussing 65:1-6 on divorcing PREGNANT wives
madelawfulby your Allah for Muhammat? Do your consider this
allowance as one of muhammat GREATNESS?
The weakness is from you not me.
1. Your argument is based on a fantasy sob story
   which actually depicts the christian values of
   divorce as per your bible.
If it is fantasy. Too bad it is Muhammat's fantasy in qoranic sura of
ATT TaalaQ 65:1-6.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
2. You cannot even address the counter arguments
   presented except just repeating already refuted
   arguments.
What counter argument?
Post by s***@hotmail.com
3. The tafseer to the verses has been provided. You
   were afraid to face the truth so you did not open
   and read it. Your problem not mine.
Tafseer on why Allah issued revelation to allow Muhammat to divorce
PREGNANT WOMEN?
Post by s***@hotmail.com
4. You are a clueless christian , it has already been
   pointed out via the tafseer & legal definition of
   divorce that in islam it is prohibited to divorce
   pregnant woman. You still persist on that line of
   argument , looks like you are trying to equate it
   to christianity as your biblical law of divorce is
   crude , barbaric and thuggish to women expecially
   pregnant women (as they can be divorced at the
   will of the man).
I''ve got all the clues from your qoran and you.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
5. You admitted the prophet never divorced any of
   his wives.
Then the SIN is on your Allah for allowing Muhammat to divorce
PREGNANT women.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-07 10:02:09 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 6, 7:22 pm, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Why are refraining from discussing 65:1-6 on divorcing PREGNANT wives
madelawfulby your Allah for Muhammat? Do your consider this
allowance as one of muhammat GREATNESS?
The weakness is from you not me.
1. Your argument is based on a fantasy sob story
   which actually depicts the christian values of
   divorce as per your bible.
If it is fantasy. Too bad it is Muhammat's fantasy in qoranic sura of
ATT TaalaQ 65:1-6.
Bzzt Wrong!
Its your fantasy not the prophet. Apart from you , we
are all in the real world. Only you create argument
from your fantasy. Clueless christian , you cannot
argue on facts , you create a fantasy and argue on
fantasy. Now do you believe me when I say christianity
is based on conjecture. That is what 2000 years of
brain washing and thought control has done to you.
You cannot even make a distinction between facts and
fantasy.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
2. You cannot even address the counter arguments
   presented except just repeating already refuted
   arguments.
What counter argument?
- did Prophet Muhammad (saw) ever divorced his wives?
yes or no
If yes , then you are living in a fantasy world as
you cannot grasp facts. If no , then you are again
arguing from conjectures and wild speculation. You
are not factual in your argument (as usual).

What do the verses mean? Simple its a guide line for
divorce. What is so difficult to understand?

- Let us compare divorce & child custody between islam
(as in Quran) and christianity (as in bible)

Islam Christianity
1. Custody of mother father
children (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony must no need
3. Divorce pregnant NO OK
wives
4. Rights to shared woman no rights
children

Looking at the summary , others and I who can
exercise logic and wisdom will surely prefer the
islamic (Quranic) law of divorce and child custody
as it much more equitable and just.

When you say the law is cruel - are you referring
to the biblical law of divorce and child custody?
Pretending to be confused on top of already being
clueless ....

-
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
3. The tafseer to the verses has been provided. You
   were afraid to face the truth so you did not open
   and read it. Your problem not mine.
Tafseer on why Allah issued revelation to allow Muhammat to divorce
PREGNANT WOMEN?
Again , your cluelessness knows no bounds. Looks like
you are equating the Quranic law to your crude ,
thuggish and barbaric biblical laws. I can understand
that you are highly embarrassed by the biblical divorce
law but you should be honest to admit that the islamic
law is not like the biblical law. Quran does not allow
divorce of pregnant women but its OK by you bible.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
4. You are a clueless christian , it has already been
   pointed out via the tafseer & legal definition of
   divorce that in islam it is prohibited to divorce
   pregnant woman. You still persist on that line of
   argument , looks like you are trying to equate it
   to christianity as your biblical law of divorce is
   crude , barbaric and thuggish to women expecially
   pregnant women (as they can be divorced at the
   will of the man).
I''ve got all the clues from your qoran and you.
We will see. So far all of your points have been devoid
of facts. What do you have , a sob story based on the
biblical divorce laws. You then tried to pass it off
being the Quranic law. Poor chap .... caught again .
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
5. You admitted the prophet never divorced any of
   his wives.
Then the SIN is on your Allah for allowing Muhammat to divorce
PREGNANT women.
Clueless christian at work .... First you admitted
that the prophet never divorced any of his wives ,
then it is a sin on Allah for the prophet to divorce
pregnant wives in which there was NEVER a case either
in the Quran or in reality.

Wait! The above is exactly what is stated in your
bible.
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
and it come to pass that she find no favour in
his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
in her: then let him write her a bill of
divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
her out of his house.

In the end , your point and sob story has been about
the crude , thuggish and barbaric divorce law of your
bible. Does this mean that your father in heaven needs
to kill another innocent person to atone for his sins?

My advice again : be objective not christian

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 44

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-07 11:36:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Why are refraining from discussing 65:1-6 on divorcing PREGNANT wives
madelawfulby your Allah for Muhammat? Do your consider this
allowance as one of muhammat GREATNESS?
The weakness is from you not me.
1. Your argument is based on a fantasy sob story
   which actually depicts the christian values of
   divorce as per your bible.
If it is fantasy. Too bad it is Muhammat's fantasy in qoranic sura of
ATT TaalaQ 65:1-6.
Bzzt Wrong!
Its your fantasy not the prophet. Apart from you , we
ATH TALAAQ 65: 1-5 can'tbe my fantasy. It's Muhammat your GREAT
PROPHET that issue those qoranic verses.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
2. You cannot even address the counter arguments
   presented except just repeating already refuted
   arguments.
What counter argument?
- did Prophet Muhammad (saw) ever divorced his wives?
If you can read the title properly, that's not the issue. The issue is
how misogynist-ly CUREL and HEARTLESS of your Allah issuing (thru
Muhammat only) revelations making lawful for Muhammat to divorce
PREGNANT WOMEN.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
  What do the verses mean? Simple its a guide line for
  divorce. What is so difficult to understand?
That's right. Guide for Muhammat to divorce his wives including
PREGNANT WOMEN. That if you comfortable to just exercise simple
reading on ATH TALAAQ 65:1-6.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-09 09:19:30 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 7, 7:36 pm, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Bzzt Wrong!
Its your fantasy not the prophet. Apart from you , we
ATH TALAAQ 65: 1-5 can'tbe my fantasy. It's Muhammat your GREAT
PROPHET that issue those qoranic verses.
Correction , the prophet did not issue the verses.
He was unlettered. The verses came from Allah.

Its correct to say that it is your argument has
been created from your fantasy because if you
refer to the tafseer and the legal definition of
divorce and iddah , you have been refuted. Worse
still you are just repeating already refuted
arguments. You cannot even address the counter
argument but just repeat your already refuted
arguments. Your have exposed yourself as a
christian who cannot even argue based on facts.
Your argument is based on 'HYPOTHETICAL DIVORCED
WIVES'. Where is your facts? Everyone on this
planet apart from christians deal in facts.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
2. You cannot even address the counter arguments
   presented except just repeating already refuted
   arguments.
What counter argument?
- did Prophet Muhammad (saw) ever divorced his wives?
If you can read the title properly, that's not the issue. The issue is
how misogynist-ly CUREL and HEARTLESS of your Allah issuing (thru
Muhammat only) revelations makinglawfulfor Muhammat to divorce
PREGNANT WOMEN.
Oh I see , now that you have failed , the argument
is about a hypothetical scenario of divorcing pregnant
women as in your bible of deut24:1 :
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married
her, and it come to pass that she find no
favour in his eyes, because he hath found
some uncleanness in her: then let him write
her a bill of divorcement, and give it in
her hand, and send her out of his house.

Biblical law - don't want the wife anymore , kick
her out regardless if she is pregnant. No problems
the christian god will kill some innocent person
for sin atonement.

However in the Quran :
bit part of verses65:1&4
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/65.htm
1. '...When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their
prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their
prescribed periods ...'
4. '...for those who carry (life within their wombs),
their period is until they deliver their burdens
...'

Lets look into divorce and iddah :
ref : http://www.mail-archive.com/***@yahoogroups.com/msg07982.html
excerpt : '... The word Iddah is derived from the
Arabic word al-Adad meaning the number,
in the terminology of the shariah it
means a period of waiting from re-marriage
after the death of her husband or her
separation or divorce from him...'
'...Generally jurists identify two functions
for the iddah period. The first allows for
a period of reconciliation between a husband
and wife such that whatever issue is dividing
them may somehow be addressed and overcome
thus avoiding a divorce. The second is more
functional, to ensure that the woman is not
pregnant...'
- source : Shariah the Islamic Law, Doi, ch
13, abridged

Definition of divorce :
ref : http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d187.htm
excerpt : The dissolution of a marriage contracted
between a man and a woman, by the judgment
of a court of competent jurisdiction, or
(Obs.) by an act of the legislature.

By legal definition , divorce is enforced , upon the
dissolution of marriage. Therefore during iddah , it
is not divorce but a cooling off period to enable
the couple work on their differences. In legal terms
divorce only comes into the picture after the iddah.

Oops got you again trying to pass off the crude ,
barbaric and thuggish biblical laws of divorcing of
pregnant women to be the Quranic laws.

In the end its your christian god who is CUREL ,
HEARTLESS and a MISOGYNIST. Wait there is more , your
christian god will probably look to kill someone
innocent as atonement for the sins of others. Hope
its not on the cross this time around.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
  What do the verses mean? Simple its a guide line for
  divorce. What is so difficult to understand?
That's right. Guide for Muhammat to divorce his wives including
PREGNANT WOMEN. That if you comfortable to just exercise simple
reading on ATH TALAAQ 65:1-6.
Correct .... that means do not divorce pregnant women
as per the Quranic verses and definition as above.

Opposite to that , the biblical laws makes it lawful
for christians to divorce pregnant women.

Thank you for your agreement.

my advice again : be objective not christian.

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 45

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-10 00:09:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Bzzt Wrong!
Its your fantasy not the prophet. Apart from you , we
ATH TALAAQ 65: 1-5 can'tbe my fantasy. It's Muhammat your GREAT
PROPHET that issue those qoranic verses.
Correction , the prophet did not issue the verses.
He was unlettered. The verses came from Allah.
You bring up at least 2 issues here:
1) What is the difference between "issued by Muhammat" with "issued by
Allah as proclaimed by and thru Muhammat only?"
2) Going back to the issue, the misogynist fault is with the issuer of
the law. In that case, you seem to be rather levying the blame to
Allah rather than to Muhammat, is that true?
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-10 11:36:25 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 10, 8:09 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--smip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Bzzt Wrong!
Its your fantasy not the prophet. Apart from you , we
ATH TALAAQ 65: 1-5 can'tbe my fantasy. It's Muhammat your GREAT
PROPHET that issue those qoranic verses.
Correction , the prophet did not issue the verses.
He was unlettered. The verses came from Allah.
1) What is the difference between "issued by Muhammat" with "issued by
Allah as proclaimed by and thru Muhammat only?"
What do you think is the difference?
Post by donie
2) Going back to the issue, the misogynist fault is with the issuer of
the law. In that case, you seem to be rather levying the blame to
Allah rather than to Muhammat, is that true?
Wrong again. I think you are confused with your
bible which has crude , barbaric , thuggish and
misogynist divorce laws as pregnant women can be
divorced and be kicked out of the house per the
biblical law. Issit that you are again practicing
deception (again and again) in trying to pass
off your biblical law as Quranic law and hoping
no one notice?

The quran prohibit the divorce of pregnant women
as per the citation already provided and in
reference to verse65:1&4.

my advice again : be objective not christian.

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 46

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-11 19:05:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--smip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Bzzt Wrong!
Its your fantasy not the prophet. Apart from you , we
ATH TALAAQ 65: 1-5 can'tbe my fantasy. It's Muhammat your GREAT
PROPHET that issue those qoranic verses.
Correction , the prophet did not issue the verses.
He was unlettered. The verses came from Allah.
1) What is the difference between "issued by Muhammat" with "issued by
Allah as proclaimed by and thru Muhammat only?"
What do you think is the difference?
There is no difference at all. All your allah revelation is subject to
whatever relayed by Muhammat.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-12 10:25:28 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 12, 3:05 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
ATH TALAAQ 65: 1-5 can'tbe my fantasy. It's Muhammat your GREAT
PROPHET that issue those qoranic verses.
Correction , the prophet did not issue the verses.
He was unlettered. The verses came from Allah.
1) What is the difference between "issued by Muhammat" with "issued by
Allah as proclaimed by and thru Muhammat only?"
What do you think is the difference?
There is no difference at all. All your allah revelation is subject to
whatever relayed by Muhammat.
Correct ..... you have by your own admission stated
that Prophet Muhammad (saw) relayed what revelations
Allah made. Therefore you have indirectly supported
of the fact that Prophet Muhammad (saw) was a
prophet of Allah. Thank you very much , danke , merci
, muchos gracias , terima kasih ....

my advice again : be objective not christian (looks
like you are close to be objective)

count of you refusing to answer the question = 46

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-12 21:43:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
ATH TALAAQ 65: 1-5 can'tbe my fantasy. It's Muhammat your GREAT
PROPHET that issue those qoranic verses.
Correction , the prophet did not issue the verses.
He was unlettered. The verses came from Allah.
1) What is the difference between "issued by Muhammat" with "issued by
Allah as proclaimed by and thru Muhammat only?"
What do you think is the difference?
There is no difference at all. All your allah revelation is subject to
whatever relayed by Muhammat.
Correct ..... you have by your own admission stated
that Prophet Muhammad (saw) relayed what revelations
Allah made. Therefore you have indirectly supported
of the fact that Prophet Muhammad (saw) was a
prophet of Allah. Thank you very much , danke , merci
, muchos gracias , terima kasih ....
You are very much welcome. I fully agree, Muhammat is clearly GREAT
PROPHET of Allah. But I feel sick looking at the kind of Allah
portrayed by your Muhammat. In this particular thread, Muhammat
portrays Allah that makes lawful for Muhammat to divorce PREGNANT
women without reason.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-14 12:28:40 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 13, 5:43 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Correct ..... you have by your own admission stated
that Prophet Muhammad (saw) relayed what revelations
Allah made. Therefore you have indirectly supported
of the fact that Prophet Muhammad (saw) was a
prophet of Allah. Thank you very much , danke , merci
, muchos gracias , terima kasih ....
You are very much welcome. I fully agree, Muhammat is clearly GREAT
PROPHET of Allah. But I feel sick looking at the kind of Allah
portrayed by your Muhammat. In this particular thread, Muhammat
portrays Allah that makeslawfulfor Muhammat todivorcePREGNANTwomenwithout reason.
That means you are sick of your own religion
with crude , thuggish , barbaric and oppressively
misognystic biblical law. Just imagine the
biblical law of even divorcing pregnant women
as deut24:1 with no compassion at all
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married
her, and it come to pass that she find no
favour in his eyes, because he hath found
some uncleanness in her: then let him write
her a bill of divorcement, and give it in
her hand, and send her out of his house.

The Quran never have such laws.

You are embarrassed about it and now you are
deluding yourself and you are trying to pass it
off as to be the Quran law. Nice try , sneaky
but you have been caught out again.

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 47

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
law.
donie
2008-11-14 23:17:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
You are very much welcome. I fully agree, Muhammat is clearly GREAT
PROPHET of Allah. But I feel sick looking at the kind of Allah
portrayed by your Muhammat. In this particular thread, Muhammat
portrays Allah that makeslawfulfor Muhammat todivorcePREGNANTwomenwithout reason.
That means you are sick of your own religion
with crude , thuggish , barbaric and oppressively
misognystic biblical law. Just imagine the
biblical law of even divorcing pregnant women
as deut24:1 with no compassion at all
No, I am not. I will gladly respond to your allegation provided your
have a better reading comprehension or at least not enforcing your
interpretation based on your reading comprehension.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
The Quran never have such laws.
Then you'd better read and read to understand your ATT TalaaQ 66:1-6,
the very subject of this thread.

4. '...for those who carry (life within their wombs),
their period is until they deliver their burdens
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-16 15:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
You are very much welcome. I fully agree, Muhammat is clearly GREAT
PROPHET of Allah. But I feel sick looking at the kind of Allah
portrayed by your Muhammat. In this particular thread, Muhammat
portrays Allah that makeslawfulfor Muhammat todivorcePREGNANTwomenwithout reason.
That means you are sick of your own religion
with crude , thuggish , barbaric and oppressively
misognystic biblical law. Just imagine the
biblical law of even divorcing pregnant women
as deut24:1 with no compassion at all
No, I am not. I will gladly respond to your allegation provided your
have a better reading comprehension or at least not enforcing your
interpretation based on your reading comprehension.
You sure? Looks like you are sick of your own
religion but too embarrassed to talk about it.
Therefore you come up with something delusional
as a psychological defence. Just look at deut24
:1 of divorcing even pregnant women and then
kicking them out of the house.

You have been saying that you will respond to
the facts for the past 3 months - until now -
nothing , ziltch , nada ... If you are incapable
, just say so. We can understand , christianity
and your bible cannot stand up to scrutiny.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
The Quran never have such laws.
Then you'd better read and read to understand your ATT TalaaQ 66:1-6,
the very subject of this thread.
4. '...for those who carry (life within their wombs),
    their period is until they deliver their burdens
Yeah but you conveniently left out verse65:1 , bit
part :'...divorce them at their prescribed periods, and
count (accurately), their prescribed periods...'

Verses65:1 & 4 together : cannot divorce pregnant women.
What so difficult to understand?

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 48

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-17 02:42:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
The Quran never have such laws.
Then you'd better read and read to understand your ATT TalaaQ 65:1-6,
the very subject of this thread.
065:001
O PROPET! When ye do DIVORCE women , DIVORCE THEM at their prescribed
periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear
God your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
(themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open
lewdness, those are limits set by God: and any who transgresses the
limits of God, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
perchance God will bring about thereafter some new situation.
065:002
Thus when they fulfill their term appointed, either take them back on
equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for
witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish
the evidence (as) before God. Such is the admonition given to him who
believes in God and the Last Day. And for those who fear God, He
(ever) prepares a way out,
065:003
And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if
any one puts his trust in God, sufficient is (God) for him. For God
will surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things has God
appointed a due proportion.
065:004
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them
the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for
those who have no courses (it is the same): FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE
WITHIN THEIR WOMBS), their period is until they deliver their burdens:
and for those who fear God, He will make their path easy.

Don't you admit this is part of your GLORIOUS and HOLY qoran?
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-17 15:53:17 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 17, 10:42 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--

We have established the following :
1. Looks like you are sick of your own religion
but too embarrassed to talk about it.
Therefore you come up with something delusional
as a psychological defence. Just look at deut24
:1 of divorcing even pregnant women and then
kicking them out of the house.

2. You have been saying that you will respond to
the facts for the past 3 months - until now -
nothing , ziltch , nada ... If you are incapable
, just say so. We can understand , christianity
and your bible cannot stand up to scrutiny.

3. Until now , 3 months plus , you cannot even
refute using your bible of the claim that the
Prophet Muhammad (saw) have been foretold in
your bible. We agree that it is true then. The
Prophet Muhammad (saw) have been foretold in
your bible.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
The Quran never have such laws.
Then you'd better read and read to understand your ATT TalaaQ 65:1-6,
the very subject of this thread.
065:001
O PROPET! When ye do DIVORCE women , DIVORCE THEM at their prescribed
periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear
God your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
(themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open
lewdness, those are limits set by God: and any who transgresses the
limits of God, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
perchance God will bring about thereafter some new situation.
065:002
Thus when they fulfill their term appointed, either take them back on
equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for
witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish
the evidence (as) before God. Such is the admonition given to him who
believes in God and the Last Day. And for those who fear God, He
(ever) prepares a way out,
065:003
And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if
any one puts his trust in God, sufficient is (God) for him. For God
will surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things has God
appointed a due proportion.
065:004
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them
the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for
those who have no courses (it is the same): FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE
and for those who fear God, He will make their path easy.
Don't you admit this is part of your GLORIOUS and HOLY qoran?
Ok , look again at verses66:1&4 (bit part of it) :

66:1 : '...When ye do DIVORCE women , DIVORCE THEM
at their prescribed periods, and count
(accurately), ...'
66:4 : '...FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THEIR
WOMBS), their period is until they deliver
their burdens...'

Where do verses66:1-4 state to divorce pregnant
women like your bible of deut24:1?

The answer is as per verses66:1&4 combined of as
follows :
'DIVORCE THEM at their PRESCRIBED periods and FOR
THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THEIR WOMBS) , their
PERIOD (I repeat - THEIR PERIOD) is UNTIL THEY
DELIVER THEIR BURDENS'.

Does it not mean that it is PROHIBITED to divorce
pregnant women? Again look at the inconsistency
and of zero standards of argument from you , a
christian. It is shown very clearly that your bible
is crude , barbaric , thuggish and oppressive that
even pregnant women can be divorced as compared
to the compassionate Quran that prohibit the divorce
of pregnant women. You christians have NO moral
grounds for any argument. Yet you are so thick faced
to argue while acting stupified with regards to the
crude , barbaric , thuggish and oppressive values of
your bible.

What is so difficult to understand for a person
who boast of 'superior' comprehension. Or do you
need a dose of your so called 'son of god' urine
to be able to wake up , :)?

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 49

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-18 01:56:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
065:001
O PROPET! When ye do DIVORCE women , DIVORCE THEM at their prescribed
periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear
God your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
(themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open
lewdness, those are limits set by God: and any who transgresses the
limits of God, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
perchance God will bring about thereafter some new situation.
065:002
Thus when they fulfill their term appointed, either take them back on
equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for
witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish
the evidence (as) before God. Such is the admonition given to him who
believes in God and the Last Day. And for those who fear God, He
(ever) prepares a way out,
065:003
And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if
any one puts his trust in God, sufficient is (God) for him. For God
will surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things has God
appointed a due proportion.
065:004
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them
the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for
those who have no courses (it is the same): FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE
and for those who fear God, He will make their path easy.
Don't you admit this is part of your GLORIOUS and HOLY qoran?
66:1 : '...When ye do DIVORCE women , DIVORCE THEM
        at their prescribed periods, and count
        (accurately), ...'
66:4 : '...FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THEIR
        WOMBS), their period is until they deliver
        their burdens...'
Where do verses66:1-4 state to divorce pregnant
women like your bible of deut24:1?
Poor Sam... you can not even comprehend that THOSE CARRY (LIFES WITHIN
THEIR WOMBS) as PREGNANT WOMEN. If you have your HOLY and GLORIOUS
qoran in your mother tongue your would understand better. In BAHASA it
states PEREMPUAN-PEREMPUAN HAMIL.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-18 12:42:14 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 18, 9:56 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
065:001
O PROPET! When ye do DIVORCE women , DIVORCE THEM at their prescribed
periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear
God your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
(themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open
lewdness, those are limits set by God: and any who transgresses the
limits of God, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
perchance God will bring about thereafter some new situation.
065:002
Thus when they fulfill their term appointed, either take them back on
equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for
witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish
the evidence (as) before God. Such is the admonition given to him who
believes in God and the Last Day. And for those who fear God, He
(ever) prepares a way out,
065:003
And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if
any one puts his trust in God, sufficient is (God) for him. For God
will surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things has God
appointed a due proportion.
065:004
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them
the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for
those who have no courses (it is the same): FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE
and for those who fear God, He will make their path easy.
Don't you admit this is part of your GLORIOUS and HOLY qoran?
66:1 : '...When ye do DIVORCE women , DIVORCE THEM
        at their prescribed periods, and count
        (accurately), ...'
66:4 : '...FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THEIR
        WOMBS), their period is until they deliver
        their burdens...'
Where do verses66:1-4 state to divorce pregnant
women like your bible of deut24:1?
Poor Sam... you can not even comprehend that THOSE CARRY (LIFES WITHIN
THEIR WOMBS) as PREGNANT WOMEN. If you have your HOLY and GLORIOUS
qoran in your mother tongue your would understand better. In BAHASA it
states PEREMPUAN-PEREMPUAN HAMIL.
Nobody refute that 'THOSE CARRY (LIFES WITHIN THEIR
WOMBS) as PREGNANT WOMEN'. You acting stupid will
not help you except demonstrating that you are in
agreement with my point.

Therefore , you agree that :
'DIVORCE THEM at their PRESCRIBED periods and FOR
THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THEIR WOMBS) , their
PERIOD (I repeat - THEIR PERIOD) is UNTIL THEY
DELIVER THEIR BURDENS'.

Meaning in the Quran it is prohibited to divorce
pregnant women. This as opposed to the biblical law
of deut24:1 that a pregnant women can be divorced
and be kicked out of the house.

Again , what is your point? You have agreed that the
Quran is compassionate that it prohibit the divorce
of pregnant women as opposed to your crude , barbaric
, thuggish and oppressive bible that allows the
divorce of pregnant women and then kick them out of
the house.

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 50

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-19 02:47:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
065:001
O PROPET! When ye do DIVORCE women , DIVORCE THEM at their prescribed
periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear
God your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
(themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open
lewdness, those are limits set by God: and any who transgresses the
limits of God, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
perchance God will bring about thereafter some new situation.
065:002
Thus when they fulfill their term appointed, either take them back on
equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for
witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish
the evidence (as) before God. Such is the admonition given to him who
believes in God and the Last Day. And for those who fear God, He
(ever) prepares a way out,
065:003
And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if
any one puts his trust in God, sufficient is (God) for him. For God
will surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things has God
appointed a due proportion.
065:004
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them
the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for
those who have no courses (it is the same): FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE
and for those who fear God, He will make their path easy.
Don't you admit this is part of your GLORIOUS and HOLY qoran?
66:1 : '...When ye do DIVORCE women , DIVORCE THEM
        at their prescribed periods, and count
        (accurately), ...'
66:4 : '...FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THEIR
        WOMBS), their period is until they deliver
        their burdens...'
Where do verses66:1-4 state to divorce pregnant
women like your bible of deut24:1?
Poor Sam... you can not even comprehend that THOSE CARRY (LIFES WITHIN
THEIR WOMBS) as PREGNANT WOMEN. If you have your HOLY and GLORIOUS
qoran in your mother tongue your would understand better. In BAHASA it
states PEREMPUAN-PEREMPUAN HAMIL.
Nobody refute that 'THOSE CARRY (LIFES WITHIN THEIR
WOMBS) as PREGNANT WOMEN'. You acting stupid will
not help you except demonstrating that you are in
agreement with my point.
'DIVORCE THEM at their PRESCRIBED periods and FOR
THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THEIR WOMBS) , their
PERIOD (I repeat - THEIR PERIOD) is UNTIL THEY
DELIVER THEIR BURDENS'.
Meaning in the Quran it is prohibited to divorce
pregnant women. This as opposed to the biblical law
of deut24:1 that a pregnant women can be divorced
and be kicked out of the house.
If you read and read your GLORIOUS and HOLY qoran of ATH TALAAQ you
will see that your allah make it lawful to DIVORCE PREGNANT women but
only taking affect after they deliver their babies. The DIVORCE
VERDICT is there. The divorced pregnant women will only be expelled
from Muhammat's house after they give birth to now Muhammat's only
owned babies.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-19 11:10:05 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 19, 10:47 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
065:001
O PROPET! When ye do DIVORCE women , DIVORCE THEM at their prescribed
periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear
God your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they
(themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open
lewdness, those are limits set by God: and any who transgresses the
limits of God, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if
perchance God will bring about thereafter some new situation.
065:002
Thus when they fulfill their term appointed, either take them back on
equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for
witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish
the evidence (as) before God. Such is the admonition given to him who
believes in God and the Last Day. And for those who fear God, He
(ever) prepares a way out,
065:003
And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if
any one puts his trust in God, sufficient is (God) for him. For God
will surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things has God
appointed a due proportion.
065:004
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them
the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for
those who have no courses (it is the same): FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE
and for those who fear God, He will make their path easy.
Don't you admit this is part of your GLORIOUS and HOLY qoran?
66:1 : '...When ye do DIVORCE women , DIVORCE THEM
        at their prescribed periods, and count
        (accurately), ...'
66:4 : '...FOR THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THEIR
        WOMBS), their period is until they deliver
        their burdens...'
Where do verses66:1-4 state to divorce pregnant
women like your bible of deut24:1?
Poor Sam... you can not even comprehend that THOSE CARRY (LIFES WITHIN
THEIR WOMBS) as PREGNANT WOMEN. If you have your HOLY and GLORIOUS
qoran in your mother tongue your would understand better. In BAHASA it
states PEREMPUAN-PEREMPUAN HAMIL.
Nobody refute that 'THOSE CARRY (LIFES WITHIN THEIR
WOMBS) as PREGNANT WOMEN'. You acting stupid will
not help you except demonstrating that you are in
agreement with my point.
'DIVORCE THEM at their PRESCRIBED periods and FOR
THOSE WHO CARRY (LIFE WITHIN THEIR WOMBS) , their
PERIOD (I repeat - THEIR PERIOD) is UNTIL THEY
DELIVER THEIR BURDENS'.
Meaning in the Quran it is prohibited to divorce
pregnant women. This as opposed to the biblical law
of deut24:1 that a pregnant women can be divorced
and be kicked out of the house.
If you read and read your GLORIOUS and HOLY qoran of ATH TALAAQ you
will see that your allah make itlawfulto DIVORCE PREGNANT women but
only taking affect after they deliver their babies. The DIVORCE
VERDICT is there. The divorced pregnant women will only be expelled
from Muhammat's house after they give birth to now Muhammat's only
owned babies.
Then you admit that it is prohibited to divorce
pregnant women. Lets look at the definition of
divorce :
ref : http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d187.htm
excerpt : The dissolution of a marriage contracted
between a man and a woman, by the judgment
of a court of competent jurisdiction, or
(Obs.) by an act of the legislature.

Divorce is the DISSOLUTION of marriage. How can there
be a DIVORCE VERDICT if the dissolution of marriage
is after the delivery of the baby?

A logical question : Is there DISSOLUTION of marriage
during pregnancy in verse65:4?

Arguing from standpoint of 'HYPOTHETICAL DIVORCE WIVES'
will not help you. You do not have the facts only your
fantasy and ASSUMPTIONS. Did the prophet ever divorced
his wives? You have been caught square again. Until
now you could not even address the counter arguments.

In the end we can see :
1. Admission from you that verse65:4 prohibit divorce
of pregnant women.
2. You again argue from 'reinvented excuses' of basing
your argument from an ASSUMPTION (ie. 'HYPOTHETICAL
DIVORCED WIVES').
3. When refuted you change your stance to talk about
another reinvented excuse of the prophet owning
babies. Yawn ... repeating of already refuted
argument.

Are you are bankrupt of facts to argue on? Do you
agree that deut24:1 , is crude , barbaric , thuggish
, oppressive and misogynist as it allows for the divorce
of pregnant women and then kick her out of the house?
Why so afraid to comment on your bible?

Can you , a christian mount a serious challenge to us
muslims? To remind you , until now you have not managed
to refute the biblical verses foretelling the arrival
of Prophet Muhammad (saw). You concede of this point?
Silence means yes ....

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 51

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-20 06:44:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
If you read and read your GLORIOUS and HOLY qoran of ATH TALAAQ you
will see that your allah make itlawfulto DIVORCE PREGNANT women but
only taking affect after they deliver their babies. The DIVORCE
VERDICT is there. The divorced pregnant women will only be expelled
from Muhammat's house after they give birth to now Muhammat's only
owned babies.
Then you admit that it is prohibited to divorce
pregnant women. Lets look at the definition of
ref :http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d187.htm
excerpt : The dissolution of a marriage contracted
          between a man and a woman, by the judgment
          of a court of competent jurisdiction, or
          (Obs.) by an act of the legislature.
Divorce is the DISSOLUTION of marriage. How can there
be a DIVORCE VERDICT if the dissolution of marriage
is after the delivery of the baby?
A logical question : Is there DISSOLUTION of marriage
                     during pregnancy in verse65:4?
That's problem with your Allah and his quran. How could your allah
issue such a LAW, divorcing pregnant women but waiting for the iddah,
until they deliver for the babies for the marriages to DISSOLVE
EFFECTIVELY.

You can play with words whatever way you like. But your ATT TALAAQ
verses show the EVILness of your Allah in making such scenario.
DIVORCE PREGNANT WOMEN although Muhammat had to wait until the wives
deliver the babies.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-20 11:22:51 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 20, 2:44 pm, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
If you read and read your GLORIOUS and HOLY qoran of ATH TALAAQ you
will see that your allah make itlawfulto DIVORCE PREGNANT women but
only taking affect after they deliver their babies. The DIVORCE
VERDICT is there. The divorced pregnant women will only be expelled
from Muhammat's house after they give birth to now Muhammat's only
owned babies.
Then you admit that it is prohibited to divorce
pregnant women. Lets look at the definition of
ref :http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d187.htm
excerpt : The dissolution of a marriage contracted
          between a man and a woman, by the judgment
          of a court of competent jurisdiction, or
          (Obs.) by an act of the legislature.
Divorce is the DISSOLUTION of marriage. How can there
be a DIVORCE VERDICT if the dissolution of marriage
is after the delivery of the baby?
A logical question : Is there DISSOLUTION of marriage
                     during pregnancy in verse65:4?
That's problem with your Allah and his quran. How could your allah
issue such a LAW, divorcing pregnant women but waiting for the iddah,
until they deliver for the babies for the marriages to DISSOLVE
EFFECTIVELY.
The problem is not with Allah or the Quran. The
problem is with you. You are trying to argue on
a non existent issue. Too bad you have been
caught out and exposed. If the marriage is to be
dissolved after childbirth , that means it is
PROHIBITED to divorce pregnant women. Again look
at the silliness of your argument , do you mean
that the baby is to be aborted?
Post by donie
You can play with words whatever way you like. But your ATT TALAAQ
verses show the EVILness of your Allah in making such scenario.
DIVORCE PREGNANT WOMEN although Muhammat had to wait until the wives
deliver the babies.
The one playing with words is you. You are trying
to create a non existent issue. We are using english
as a medium of communication arent't we? We are not
communicating on swahili are we? I have provided
the definition of divorce based on the english
language.

ref : http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d187.htm
excerpt : The dissolution of a marriage contracted
between a man and a woman, by the judgment
of a court of competent jurisdiction, or
(Obs.) by an act of the legislature.

Divorce is the DISSOLUTION of marriage. How can there
be a DIVORCE VERDICT if the dissolution of marriage
is after the delivery of the baby?

The definition clearly shows that divorce of
pregnant women is prohibited in the Quran which
is the word of Allah.

Your inconsistency is again being demonstrated and
exposed. You label the non existant issue of the
the Quran stating that it is lawful to divorce
pregnant women (whereas in reality it is actually
prohibited in the Quran to divorce pregnant women)
as EVIL. What about the clear existing verse of
your bible of DEUT24:1 of its OK to divorce pregnant
women and then kick them out of the house? Being
consistent , you should renounce christianity as
deut24:1 of your 'god inspired' bible is EVIL. Are
you willing to do that? You should be consistent
in your argument and principle. Are you now an
athiest as the core of your argument is the EVILNESS
of divorcing pregnant women. This value is ONLY
found in your bible of deut24:1.

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 52

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-21 03:53:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
The problem is not with Allah or the Quran. The
problem is with you. You are trying to argue on
a non existent issue. Too bad you have been
caught out and exposed. If the marriage is to be
dissolved after childbirth , that means it is
PROHIBITED to divorce pregnant women. Again look
at the silliness of your argument , do you mean
that the baby is to be aborted?
Yes. As per your HOLY ATT TALAAQ 1-6, It is lawful for the HOLY
PROPHET to DIVORCE PREGNANT but the DIVORCE would only taking effect
after the childbirth. The HOLY ATT TALAAQ 1-6 is about DIVORCE. The
scenario for divorcing his wives is carefully tracked by allah in
these verses.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-21 12:51:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
The problem is not with Allah or the Quran. The
problem is with you. You are trying to argue on
a non existent issue. Too bad you have been
caught out and exposed. If the marriage is to be
dissolved after childbirth , that means it is
PROHIBITED to divorce pregnant women. Again look
at the silliness of your argument , do you mean
that the baby is to be aborted?
Yes. As per your HOLY ATT TALAAQ 1-6, It islawfulfor the HOLY
PROPHET to DIVORCE PREGNANT but the DIVORCE would only taking effect
after the childbirth. The HOLY ATT TALAAQ 1-6 is about DIVORCE. The
scenario for divorcing his wives is carefully tracked by allah in
these verses.
So now you agree that all the time it has been
your problem of trying to invent a non existent
issue. You are absolutely INCAPABLE of providing
a serious challenge. Your only option is to repeat
, regardless it being your bull shit argument again
and again hoping that by repeating it , it somehow
becomes true. How come all christians seems to have
this mindset?

Are we communicating in english or swahili? The
english legal definition of divorce is as follows :
ref : http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d187.htm
excerpt : The dissolution of a marriage contracted
between a man and a woman, by the judgment
of a court of competent jurisdiction, or
(Obs.) by an act of the legislature.

Divorce is the DISSOLUTION of marriage. How can there
be a DIVORCE VERDICT if the dissolution of marriage
is after the delivery of the baby?

combined with (bit part of)
verse65:1 - '...divorce them at their prescribed
periods, and count (accurately), their
prescribed periods...'
verse65:4 - '...for those who carry (life within
their wombs), their period is until
they deliver their burdens...'

Obvious isn't it? NO divorce of pregnant women in
the Quran. You boast of 'superior comprehension' ,
hmmmmm ....

What about the clear existing verse of your bible
of DEUT24:1 of its OK to divorce pregnant women and
then kick them out of the house? Being consistent ,
you should renounce christianity as deut24:1 of
your 'god inspired' bible is EVIL. Are you willing
to do that? You should be consistent in your
argument and principle. Are you now an athiest as
the core of your argument is the EVILNESS of
divorcing pregnant women. This value is ONLY found
in your bible of deut24:1.

How come you are so afraid to answer the question.
You a man or wimp? You should start wearing skirts.

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 53

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-22 10:01:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Yes. As per your HOLY ATT TALAAQ 1-6, It islawfulfor the HOLY
PROPHET to DIVORCE PREGNANT but the DIVORCE would only taking effect
after the childbirth. The HOLY ATT TALAAQ 1-6 is about DIVORCE. The
scenario for divorcing his wives is carefully tracked by allah in
these verses.
So now you agree that all the time it has been
your problem of trying to invent a non existent
issue. You are absolutely INCAPABLE of providing
a serious challenge. Your only option is to repeat
, regardless it being your bull shit argument again
and again hoping that by repeating it , it somehow
becomes true. How come all christians seems to have
this mindset?
You've been avoiding the challenge at any costs. I repeat "why would
your Allah need to issue the verses which you have the nerve honoring
as HOLY and GLORIOUS in AT TALAAQ 1-6, lawful for Muhammat (again you
honor as GREAT and HOLY Prophet) to divorce his wives. For PREGNANT
wives the iddat would be after they deliver the babies, meaning the
DIVORCE would only be effectively taking place after the deliveries.

To give you a clue, the answer to a WHY should center around "because
so and so."
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-22 13:51:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Yes. As per your HOLY ATT TALAAQ 1-6, It islawfulfor the HOLY
PROPHET to DIVORCE PREGNANT but the DIVORCE would only taking effect
after the childbirth. The HOLY ATT TALAAQ 1-6 is about DIVORCE. The
scenario for divorcing his wives is carefully tracked by allah in
these verses.
So now you agree that all the time it has been
your problem of trying to invent a non existent
issue. You are absolutely INCAPABLE of providing
a serious challenge. Your only option is to repeat
, regardless it being your bull shit argument again
and again hoping that by repeating it , it somehow
becomes true. How come all christians seems to have
this mindset?
You've been avoiding the challenge at any costs. I repeat "why would
your Allah need to issue the verses which you have the nerve honoring
as HOLY and GLORIOUS in AT TALAAQ 1-6,lawfulfor Muhammat (again you
honor as GREAT and HOLY Prophet) to divorce his wives. For PREGNANT
wives the iddat would be after they deliver the babies, meaning the
DIVORCE would only be effectively taking place after the deliveries.
To give you a clue, the answer to a WHY should center around "because
so and so."
What challenge have you provided? I had to plead
with you to mount a strong challenge and until
now you have been INCAPABLE to do so.

The question is - has the prophet ever divorced his
wives? You admitted NO. Then why don't you use your
logic? This means that those verses are the ground
rules for divorce. This has been repeated for more
than 4 times. You still ask the same question. You
will get the same answers.

What is iddah , this has been answered also. Go back
to the previous posts. Has the marriage dissolved?
The answer is NO. Its a cooling off period. In the
ENGLISH language , the legal definition of divorce
is dissolution of marriage. Refer again to my last
post of the bit part of verses65:1 & 4. Does it
state dissolution of marriage for pregnant women?
The answer is a big NO. Therefore isn't it obvious
that there is prohibition to divorce pregnant women?
That means your challenge of :
'...why would your Allah need to issue the verses
which you have the nerve honoring as HOLY and
GLORIOUS in AT TALAAQ 1-6,lawfulfor Muhammat (again
you honor as GREAT and HOLY Prophet) to divorce his
wives. For PREGNANT wives the iddat would be after
they deliver the babies, meaning the DIVORCE would
only be effectively taking place after the deliveries.'

--- IS RUBBISH.

Notice you even admitted that divorce would be
effective after childbirth. You have already refuted ,
smoked and kapowed your own argument again. You have
inadvertently agreed that there is NO divorce of
pregnant women in verses65:1 & 4.

HOWEVER :
What about the clear existing verse of your bible
of DEUT24:1 of its OK to divorce pregnant women and
then kick them out of the house? Being consistent ,
you should renounce christianity as deut24:1 of
your 'god inspired' bible is EVIL. Are you willing
to do that? You should be consistent in your
argument and principle. Are you now an athiest as
the core of your argument is the EVILNESS of
divorcing pregnant women. This value is ONLY found
in your bible of deut24:1.

How come you are so afraid to answer the question.
You a man or wimp? You should start wearing skirts.

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 54

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-22 19:25:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Yes. As per your HOLY ATT TALAAQ 1-6, It islawfulfor the HOLY
PROPHET to DIVORCE PREGNANT but the DIVORCE would only taking effect
after the childbirth. The HOLY ATT TALAAQ 1-6 is about DIVORCE. The
scenario for divorcing his wives is carefully tracked by allah in
these verses.
So now you agree that all the time it has been
your problem of trying to invent a non existent
issue. You are absolutely INCAPABLE of providing
a serious challenge. Your only option is to repeat
, regardless it being your bull shit argument again
and again hoping that by repeating it , it somehow
becomes true. How come all christians seems to have
this mindset?
You've been avoiding the challenge at any costs. I repeat "why would
your Allah need to issue the verses which you have the nerve honoring
as HOLY and GLORIOUS in AT TALAAQ 1-6,lawfulfor Muhammat (again you
honor as GREAT and HOLY Prophet) to divorce his wives. For PREGNANT
wives the iddat would be after they deliver the babies, meaning the
DIVORCE would only be effectively taking place after the deliveries.
To give you a clue, the answer to a WHY should center around "because
so and so."
What challenge have you provided? I had to plead
Until now you don't have the gut in discuss why does you Allah need to
issue such misogynist, women threatening verses of AT Talaaq 1-6.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-23 10:18:23 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 23, 3:25 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Yes. As per your HOLY ATT TALAAQ 1-6, It islawfulfor the HOLY
PROPHET to DIVORCE PREGNANT but the DIVORCE would only taking effect
after the childbirth. The HOLY ATT TALAAQ 1-6 is about DIVORCE. The
scenario for divorcing his wives is carefully tracked by allah in
these verses.
So now you agree that all the time it has been
your problem of trying to invent a non existent
issue. You are absolutely INCAPABLE of providing
a serious challenge. Your only option is to repeat
, regardless it being your bull shit argument again
and again hoping that by repeating it , it somehow
becomes true. How come all christians seems to have
this mindset?
You've been avoiding the challenge at any costs. I repeat "why would
your Allah need to issue the verses which you have the nerve honoring
as HOLY and GLORIOUS in AT TALAAQ 1-6,lawfulfor Muhammat (again you
honor as GREAT and HOLY Prophet) to divorce his wives. For PREGNANT
wives the iddat would be after they deliver the babies, meaning the
DIVORCE would only be effectively taking place after the deliveries.
To give you a clue, the answer to a WHY should center around "because
so and so."
What challenge have you provided? I had to plead
Until now you don't have the gut in discuss why does you Allah need to
issue such misogynist, women threatening verses of AT Talaaq 1-6.
How to discuss? Your argument have been based on
rubbish. Even you admitted of the following -
'...meaning the DIVORCE would only be effectively
taking place after the deliveries...'

Can you tell me where should I start as you have
already answered on my behalf in your admission
that the Quran and islamic law prohibits divorce
of pregnant women. Thank you very much ...

That means you agreed and admitted that the Quran
prohibits divorce if pregnant women. You already
refuted , smoked and kapowed your own argument or
lack of argument except presenting rubbish. You
have made a fool of yourself. Why should I get
involved in you making a fool of yourself?

HOWEVER :
What about the clear existing verse of your bible
of DEUT24:1 of its OK to divorce pregnant women and
then kick them out of the house? Being consistent ,
you should renounce christianity as deut24:1 of
your 'god inspired' bible is EVIL. Are you willing
to do that? You should be consistent in your
argument and principle. Are you now an athiest as
the core of your argument is the EVILNESS of
divorcing pregnant women. This value is ONLY found
in your bible of deut24:1.

How come you are so afraid to answer the question.
You a man or wimp? You should start wearing skirts.

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 55

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-27 16:08:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
How to discuss? Your argument have been based on
rubbish. Even you admitted of the following -
'...meaning the DIVORCE would only be effectively
 taking place after the deliveries...'
Can you tell me where should I start as you have
already answered on my behalf in your admission
that the Quran and islamic law prohibits divorce
of pregnant women. Thank you very much ...
Fine. You should start from discussing why would your Allah be so
misogynist-ly cruel as to, without reason put up a SCENARIO for the
GREAT and HOLY PROPHET to divorce his wives including PREGNANT WOMEN?
This have been the issue all along, but you have been either too
embarrassed to discuss, or you don't comprehend your qoran at all.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-28 10:21:17 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 28, 12:08 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--

Thank you for refuting your own arguments. How come
you are so afraid to answer on why you are still a
christian? Do you need to wear skirts?
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
How to discuss? Your argument have been based on
rubbish. Even you admitted of the following -
'...meaning theDIVORCEwould only be effectively
 taking place after the deliveries...'
Can you tell me where should I start as you have
already answered on my behalf in your admission
that the Quran and islamic law prohibitsdivorce
ofpregnantwomen. Thank you very much ...
Fine. You should start from discussing why would your Allah be so
misogynist-ly cruel as to, without reason put up a SCENARIO for the
GREAT and HOLY PROPHET todivorcehis wives includingPREGNANTWOMEN?
This have been the issue all along, but you have been either too
embarrassed to discuss, or you don't comprehend your qoran at all.
On this one , I just can't stop laughing at you.
You have already admitted to the following :
'...meaning the DIVORCE would only be effectively
taking place after the deliveries...'

Thank you very much again for your admission. It
really makes you look stupid doesn't it? Well in
the end , the truth will prevail as per the Quran
verse21:18
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/21.htm
18. Nay, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and
it knocks out its brain, and behold, falsehood
doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false)
things ye ascribe (to Us).

You have already admitted that divorce is AFTER the
delivery of the baby. This means that in the Quran ,
it is PROHIBITED to divorce pregnant women. Took you
such a long time to come to your senses. Did you take
your usual dose of your so called biblical 'son of
god' urine to wake you up?

Why are you still arguing of your now fantasy of
'... SCENARIO for the GREAT and HOLY PROPHET
todivorcehis wives including PREGNANTWOMEN?...'?
You change your stance every time you got refuted.
Do you have any consistency or principles to begin
with?

What 'SCENARIO' are you jibbering about? Talk facts
not bullshit that comes from your perverted mind. I
do not discuss bullshit. We muslims do not bullshit
nor do we entertain bullshit. If you have the facts
lay it out. If not you will be caught out as what
you have done for the fifth or sixth time in refuting
, smoking and kapowing your own argument.

If you want to make a fool of yourself , do it alone
and do not involve others.

HOWEVER :
What about the clear existing verse of your bible
of DEUT24:1 of its OK to divorce pregnant women and
then kick them out of the house? Being consistent ,
you should renounce christianity as deut24:1 of
your 'god inspired' bible is EVIL. Are you willing
to do that? You should be consistent in your
argument and principle. Are you now an athiest as
the core of your argument is the EVILNESS of
divorcing pregnant women. This value is ONLY found
in your bible of deut24:1.

How come you are so afraid to answer the question.
You a man or wimp? You should start wearing skirts.

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 56

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-28 23:22:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Fine. You should start from discussing why would your Allah be so
misogynist-ly cruel as to, without reason put up a SCENARIO for the
GREAT and HOLY PROPHET todivorcehis wives includingPREGNANTWOMEN?
This have been the issue all along, but you have been either too
embarrassed to discuss, or you don't comprehend your qoran at all.
On this one , I just can't stop laughing at you.
'...meaning the DIVORCE would only be effectively
 taking place after the deliveries...'
You can laugh all your life. At the end of the day, you are laughing
at your own Allah. Why should he needs to issue DIVORCE PATH,
including for those carrying lives in their wombs. Funny kind of
Allah, nah?
s***@hotmail.com
2008-11-29 08:47:40 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 29, 7:22 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Fine. You should start from discussing why would your Allah be so
misogynist-ly cruel as to, without reason put up a SCENARIO for the
GREAT and HOLY PROPHET todivorcehis wives includingPREGNANTWOMEN?
This have been the issue all along, but you have been either too
embarrassed to discuss, or you don't comprehend your qoran at all.
On this one , I just can't stop laughing at you.
'...meaning theDIVORCEwould only be effectively
 taking place after the deliveries...'
You can laugh all your life. At the end of the day, you are laughing
at your own Allah. Why should he needs to issueDIVORCEPATH,
including for those carrying lives in their wombs. Funny kind of
Allah, nah?
No , I am laughing at you. You are arguing from a
position of stupidity. You know it but you need to
be stupid as that is the only way you can push on
with your argument.

The evidence :
1. In verses65:1 & 4 states that :
To divorce , count accurately the prescribed
period. The period for pregnant women is when
they have delivered their burden. This means
PROHIBITION to divorce pregnant women in the
Quran.
2. The legal definition in ENGLISH of divorce is
the dissolution of marriage. Has the marriage
been dissolved before her child birth. It is
NO and has been admitted by you.
3. You admitted : '...meaning the DIVORCE would
only be effectively taking place after the
deliveries...'. In ENGLISH , this means that
divorce or dissolution of marriage is after
child birth. Logic dictates that there is NO
divorce or dissolution of marriage during the
term of pregnancy of the women.

My question , why are you acting or you are really
stupid? It it your only mode of argument left?
You know you have been badly caught out here. Why
the dancing around? You can't even change your
stance (which you always do when refuted) in this
case. You cannot even defend your position.

You cannot even pinpoint as to where in verse65:1-
6 that state of divorcing pregnant women.

HOWEVER :
What about the clear existing verse of your bible
of DEUT24:1 of its OK to divorce pregnant women and
then kick them out of the house? Being consistent ,
you should renounce christianity as deut24:1 of
your 'god inspired' bible is EVIL. Are you willing
to do that? You should be consistent in your
argument and principle. Are you now an athiest as
the core of your argument is the EVILNESS of
divorcing pregnant women. This value is ONLY found
in your bible of deut24:1.

How come you are so afraid to answer the question.
You a man or wimp? You should start wearing skirts.

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 57

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-11-29 21:56:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
No , I am laughing at you. You are arguing from a
position of stupidity. You know it but you need to
be stupid as that is the only way you can push on
with your argument.
   To divorce , count accurately the prescribed
   period. The period for pregnant women is when
   they have delivered their burden. This means
   PROHIBITION to divorce pregnant women in the
   Quran.
2. The legal definition in ENGLISH of divorce is
   the dissolution of marriage. Has the marriage
   been dissolved before her child birth. It is
   NO and has been admitted by you.
3. You admitted : '...meaning the DIVORCE would
   only be effectively taking place after the
   deliveries...'. In ENGLISH , this means that
   divorce or dissolution of marriage is after
   child birth. Logic dictates that there is NO
   divorce or dissolution of marriage during the
   term of pregnancy of the women.
The marriage would only be dissolved after delivery. But the plan, the
intention, the path, the scenario for DIVORCING his wives including
those who carry lives in their wombs is there already. This is exactly
the issue you feel too embarrassed to address, what kind of god would
issue DIVORCE PLAN for his GREAT and HOLY PROPHET, for no reason at
all!
s***@hotmail.com
2008-12-01 12:49:25 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 30, 5:56 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
No , I am laughing at you. You are arguing from a
position of stupidity. You know it but you need to
be stupid as that is the only way you can push on
with your argument.
   To divorce , count accurately the prescribed
   period. The period for pregnant women is when
   they have delivered their burden. This means
   PROHIBITION to divorce pregnant women in the
   Quran.
2. The legal definition in ENGLISH of divorce is
   the dissolution of marriage. Has the marriage
   been dissolved before her child birth. It is
   NO and has been admitted by you.
3. You admitted : '...meaning the DIVORCE would
   only be effectively taking place after the
   deliveries...'. In ENGLISH , this means that
   divorce or dissolution of marriage is after
   child birth. Logic dictates that there is NO
   divorce or dissolution of marriage during the
   term of pregnancy of the women.
The marriage would only be dissolved after delivery. But the plan, the
intention, the path, the scenario for DIVORCING his wives including
those who carry lives in their wombs is there already. This is exactly
the issue you feel too embarrassed to address, what kind of god would
issue DIVORCE PLAN for his GREAT and HOLY PROPHET, for no reason at
all!
That is why I am laughing at you. You have been
refuted so badly that this time you change your
stance to argue on stupidity. Your initial claim
of oct12 , 1.32pm :
'... Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful
for Muhammat to divorce his wives including
pregnant women ...'

This has been thoroughly refuted. Now you stance
is on 'intention' , 'plan' etc. Look at how stupid
you and your argument have become. Now it is
trying to argue on your so called 'HYPOTHETICAL
DIVORCE WIVES' scenario. So now you are saying
that a man can say 'I am going to divorce you
- 2 years ; or
- after your delivery ;or
- 10 years from now

Therefore the Quran or Allah is cruel etc. No one
on the face of this planet does that. Oops sorry ,
only loony christians like you will do as such. If
you lot do as such , do not equate it to others.

Now its also divorce with no reason at all. Again
no couple on the face of this planet divorce without
a reason. Shall I say , only loony christians like
you will divorce without a reason as per your bible
that man has authority over the women.

You are right , I would be very embarrassed if I
do not argue on FACTS. I would be very embarrassed
if I argue like you on such like 'HYPOTHETICAL
DIVORCE WIVES' scenario , on assumptions , on how
do you say it 'reinventing justifications or excuses
and on running away from responding to a questions.

HOWEVER :
What about the clear existing verse of your bible
of DEUT24:1 of its OK to divorce pregnant women and
then kick them out of the house? Being consistent ,
you should renounce christianity as deut24:1 of
your 'god inspired' bible is EVIL. Are you willing
to do that? You should be consistent in your
argument and principle. Are you now an athiest as
the core of your argument is the EVILNESS of
divorcing pregnant women. This value is ONLY found
in your bible of deut24:1.

How come you are so afraid to answer the question.
You a man or wimp? You should start wearing skirts.

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 58

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-12-01 15:06:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
The marriage would only be dissolved after delivery. But the plan, the
intention, the path, the scenario for DIVORCING his wives including
those who carry lives in their wombs is there already. This is exactly
the issue you feel too embarrassed to address, what kind of god would
issue DIVORCE PLAN for his GREAT and HOLY PROPHET, for no reason at
all!
That is why I am laughing at you. You have been
refuted so badly that this time you change your
stance to argue on stupidity. Your initial claim
'... Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful
 for Muhammat to divorce his wives including
 pregnant women ...'
Whar sort of god would love to have his parnter aka Rosul to marry and
divorce go lucky?
s***@hotmail.com
2008-12-02 14:38:10 UTC
Permalink
On Dec 1, 11:06 pm, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
The marriage would only be dissolved after delivery. But the plan, the
intention, the path, the scenario for DIVORCING his wives including
those who carry lives in their wombs is there already. This is exactly
the issue you feel too embarrassed to address, what kind of god would
issue DIVORCE PLAN for his GREAT and HOLY PROPHET, for no reason at
all!
That is why I am laughing at you. You have been
refuted so badly that this time you change your
stance to argue on stupidity. Your initial claim
'... Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to makelawful
 for Muhammat to divorce his wives including
 pregnant women ...'
Whar sort of god would love to have his parnter aka Rosul to marry and
divorce go lucky?
That is why you are being laughed at. Every time
you got refuted you change your stance. Now its
- '... Whar sort of god would love to have his
parnter aka Rosul to marry and divorce go
lucky?....'

Now your stance aka excuse is 'marry and divorce
go lucky'. Again either you are nuts or drunk
from the urine of your so called biblical 'son
of god'. You admitted that Prophet Muhammad (saw)
never divorced his wives. You are just running
around in circles chasing your back side.

HOWEVER :
What about the clear existing verse of your bible
of DEUT24:1 of its OK to divorce pregnant women and
then kick them out of the house? Being consistent ,
you should renounce christianity as deut24:1 of
your 'god inspired' bible is EVIL. Are you willing
to do that? You should be consistent in your
argument and principle. Are you now an athiest as
the core of your argument is the EVILNESS of
divorcing pregnant women. This value is ONLY found
in your bible of deut24:1.

How come you are so afraid to answer the question.
You a man or wimp? You should start wearing skirts.

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 59

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-12-02 18:26:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Whar sort of god would love to have his parnter aka Rosul to marry and
divorce go lucky?
That is why you are being laughed at. Every time
you got refuted you change your stance. Now its
If you are laughing at me, indirectly you're laughing at Muhammat and
the kind of god he portrays. He portrays a god that falls succumb to
his will. In this particular thread, somehow he needed to straighten
his wives, so immediately his allah is ready for the service in ATT
TALAAQ 1-6. "Oh prophet, when you DIVORCE your wives....... for those
carrying lives in their wombs, divorce them after delivery......
negotiate with divorced mothers for them to suckle the babies on pay
basis...."
Post by s***@hotmail.com
- '... Whar sort of god would love to have his
   parnter aka Rosul to marry and divorce go
   lucky?....'
s***@hotmail.com
2008-12-03 14:21:44 UTC
Permalink
On Dec 3, 2:26 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by donie
Whar sort of god would love to have his parnter aka Rosul to marry and
divorce go lucky?
That is why you are being laughed at. Every time
you got refuted you change your stance. Now its
If you are laughing at me, indirectly you're laughing at Muhammat and
the kind of god he portrays. He portrays a god that falls succumb to
his will. In this particular thread, somehow he needed to straighten
his wives, so immediately his allah is ready for the service in ATT
TALAAQ 1-6. "Oh prophet, when you DIVORCE your wives....... for those
carrying lives in their wombs, divorce them after delivery......
negotiate with divorced mothers for them to suckle the babies on pay
basis...."
Post by s***@hotmail.com
- '... Whar sort of god would love to have his
   parnter aka Rosul to marry and divorce go
   lucky?....'
Laughing at you is indirectly laughing at the
prophet? When did you become the de facto
representative of the prophet?

I am laughing at you because you argument has
taken a turn for stupidity. You know clearly
that
- the Quran verses65:1-6 have refuted you of
- the legal definition in ENGLISH of divorce
have refuted you of
- you have refuted yourself in admission of
the fact that the Quran prohibits the divorce
of pregnant wives.

You change your stance every time when you have
been refuted. That shows that you actually do
not have any FACTS or TRUTH or a plan. You are
just beating around the bush hoping for a break.
You do not get breaks here , too bad.

To point out your admission of your stupidity in
your argument - '... for those carrying lives in
their wombs , divorce them after
delivery...'
Why are you still in your own stupidity berating
on the issue of 'divorcing pregnant wives'?

How come you have forgotten about alimony? It is
an ENGLISH word you know? We are communicating in
ENGLISH aren't we?

Why do you keep on running in circles chasing your
own backside? Either you are nuts or you are drunk
from the urine of your so called biblical 'son of
god'.

HOWEVER :
What about the clear existing verse of your bible
of DEUT24:1 of its OK to divorce pregnant women and
then kick them out of the house? Being consistent ,
you should renounce christianity as deut24:1 of
your 'god inspired' bible is EVIL. Are you willing
to do that? You should be consistent in your
argument and principle. Are you now an athiest as
the core of your argument is the EVILNESS of
divorcing pregnant women. This value is ONLY found
in your bible of deut24:1.

How come you are so afraid to answer the question.
You a man or wimp? You should start wearing skirts.

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 60

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
donie
2008-12-03 22:56:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Laughing at you is indirectly laughing at the
prophet? When did you become the de facto
representative of the prophet?
Yes, coz I am laughing at your holy qoran delving on issues of
divorce. I am laughing at Muhammat on the kind of god he portrays. He
portrays a god that falls succumb to his will. In this particular
thread, somehow he needed to straighten
his wives, so immediately his allah is ready for the service in ATT
TALAAQ 1-6. "Oh prophet, when you DIVORCE your wives....... for those
carrying lives in their wombs, divorce them after delivery......
negotiate with divorced mothers for them to suckle the babies on
paybasis...."

'... Whar sort of god would love to have his partner aka Rosul to
marry and divorce go lucky?....'
Post by s***@hotmail.com
I am laughing at you because you argument has
taken a turn for stupidity. You know clearly
Nope. I don't have any argument at all. I just forward your funny AT
TALAAQ 1-6
s***@hotmail.com
2008-12-04 11:30:04 UTC
Permalink
On Dec 4, 6:56 am, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--

Don't know why you are still harping on this
issue as you clearly have admitted that you
are wrong. Your mail of dec 3 , 2.26am :
'...for those carrying lives in their wombs,
divorce them after delivery...'

Unthinkable for a christian to lose to a muslim.
You need to push on even though you are looking
more and more stupid with your arguments.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Laughing at you is indirectly laughing at the
prophet? When did you become the de facto
representative of the prophet?
Yes, coz I am laughing at your holy qoran delving on issues of
divorce. I am laughing at Muhammat on the kind of god he portrays. He
portrays a god that falls succumb to his will. In this particular
thread, somehow he needed to straighten
his wives, so immediately his allah is ready for the service in ATT
TALAAQ 1-6. "Oh prophet, when you DIVORCE your wives....... for those
carrying lives in their wombs, divorce them after delivery......
negotiate with divorced mothers for them to suckle the babies on
paybasis...."
Again you have exposed yourself as person who
has exhausted all avenues of trying to address
the counter argument. Your initial claim of
oct 12 , 1.32pm :
'... - Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make
lawful for Muhammat to divorce his wives
including pregnant women and also devilishly
advocating to HIRE the divorced wives to
breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on payment
basis?...'

You have been refuted so badly that now you
know clearly that
- the Quran verses65:1-6 have refuted you of
- the legal definition in ENGLISH of divorce
have refuted you of
- you have refuted yourself in admission of
the fact that the Quran prohibits the divorce
of pregnant wives.

You even have conveniently forgotten of the
meaning of alimony. Either that or you really
do not know of the meaning of alimony. It
could be of that as christians detest alimony
, looking at :
ref : http://toracracy.com/divorce.htm
excerpt : '...As you can see, in the case of
Biblical divorce, wife gets NOTHING
from her husband – she must not take
his children, his property, his money.
Therefore alimony is evil, alimony is
a violation of the commandment "thou
shalt not steal"...'
Post by donie
 '... Whar sort of god would love to have his partner aka Rosul to
marry and divorce go lucky?....'
Hmmm , this coming from a christian who revere
the so called biblical king david who had many
wives , concubines and the best part , who lusted
after the wife of another , bedded her (or
fornicated with her) , got her pregnant and then
send out for her husband to die in battle.

Again coming from a clueless christian like you
who admitted that Prophet Muhammad (saw) never
did divorced any of his wives. Arguing from
stupidity ..... again.

Issit that you are describing your biblical king
david? Yes? Then you are describing your christian
god. Prophet Muhammad never divorced any of his
wives.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
I am laughing at you because you argument has
taken a turn for stupidity. You know clearly
Nope. I don't have any argument at all. I just forward your funny AT
TALAAQ 1-6
This is what happen when you change your stance
every time you have been refuted. You will
eventually run out of position of argument.Now
its an admission of the fact that you did not
have any argument to begin with. What a guy .....
why don't you just be honest from the beginning
in saying that you actually do not have any
argument but your sole aim was/is to mock how
funny is verse65:1-6.

This clearly shows that you did not use your god
given brains to think. The verses provides the
giudelines of talak and iddah. No where in your
bible has such laws as your bible is just divorce
regardless if the woman is pregnant. There is no
alimony involved as alimony is something that you
christians copied from us muslims. You need to
refer to your own bible of deut24:1.

If you are in for a laugh , why don't we look at
mat1 and luk3 which feature the different genealogies
of your so called biblical 'son of god'. However
your biblical 'son of god' was of virgin birth
(ie. no father or male intervention if you do not
understand). Isn't that a bigger joke?

HOWEVER :
What about the clear existing verse of your bible
of DEUT24:1 of its OK to divorce pregnant women and
then kick them out of the house? Being consistent ,
you should renounce christianity as deut24:1 of
your 'god inspired' bible is EVIL. Are you willing
to do that? You should be consistent in your
argument and principle. Are you now an athiest as
the core of your argument is the EVILNESS of
divorcing pregnant women. This value is ONLY found
in your bible of deut24:1.

How come you are so afraid to answer the question.
You a man or wimp? You should start wearing skirts.

my advice again : be objective not christian

count of you refusing to answer the question = 61

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528

donie
2008-10-29 09:31:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Your key argument has always been 'HYPOTHETICAL'.
Therefore your argument has been based on stories
not facts. No wonder you appeal to emotions in
an effort to present your argument as you do not
1. Prophet Muhammad (saw) never divorced his wives
   as admitted by you.
Mostly true. We are talking here about the law. The issue is your
Allah was quick to make room for Muhammat as far as womanizing is
concerned. He was allowed to have more than 4 wives in addition to
those his right hand possessed. He was allowed to wed and to take to
bed his first cousins, he was allowed to take to bed women with
husbands, he was allowed to wed and to take to bed his daughter in
law, Zainab, a fresh divorcee of his adopted son, Zaid.

He could spend more time with his current favorite wife Zainab. And as
you say when Ayesha felt jealous and stirred resentment among his
other wives, Allah was quick to reprimand his wives even to the extent
of Muhammat for possibly divorcing them and awarded better
replacement, widow and VIRGINS.

It appears to be very easy for Muhammat to order revelations to suit
his way with the women he desired.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
2. As pointed out earlier , legally divorce is only
   after the iddah.
Yes. As stated in 65:4, the divorce would be effective after his
pregnant wives deliver their respective babies.
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-29 12:30:06 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 29, 5:31 pm, donie <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
--snip--

Exposing you again , you have lost in trying to
define divorce of pregnant wives in islam and now
you are beating around the bush looking for a new
angle. To refresh the argument : Lets do a table
of comparison :
Islam christianity
1. Custody of mother father
children (more rights) (absolute rights)
2. Alimony must no need
3. Divorce pregnant NO OK
wives
4. Rights to shared woman no rights
children
5. Right of refusal mother non existant as
to suckle baby the divorced wife
has got NO rights
to the baby

Looks like in christianity as derived from your bible),
treatment of divorced wives is barbaric and thuggish
to say the least. We are clear on this one.
Post by donie
Mostly true. We are talking here about the law. The issue is your
Allah was quick to make room for Muhammat as far as womanizing is
concerned. He was allowed to have more than 4 wives in addition to
those his right hand possessed. He was allowed to wed and to take to
bed his first cousins, he was allowed to take to bed women with
husbands, he was allowed to wed and to take to bed his daughter in
law, Zainab, a fresh divorcee of his adopted son, Zaid.
You are repeating already refuted arguments. In
addition you are going against your so called 'rule'
of 'one thing at a time'. This just goes on to
demonstrate that you are already desperate in your
argument.

Again you are arguing from your perverted logic. You
already refuted yourself on the prophet's marriage
as per Your post of aug9 , 11.21pm in thread 'Proof?' :
*******************
At least 4 just from the list below:

1.Khadija: the rich widow he married, they maintained faithful
monogamy for 25 years until her death did them apart. From several
historical accounts he married on average someone new every year
during his remaining life (13 years?). Don't you ever question
why he suddenly revolutionized his matrimonial habit?

2.Sauda: Widow of Mecca. May fall under your category: CARE FOR
WIDOWS.

3.Aysha: betrothed at 7, consummated at her 9th year of age. May be
politically correct at that time to further cement the bond with his
right hand man Abu Bakr. The age might also be culturally proper at
that time.

4.Hafsyah binti Umar: VIRGIN? Also for furtherance of his alliance
with Umar, his follower?

5.Zainab. Widow of his adopted son Zeid. To care for widow? If he
was a great prophet couldn't he SAVE THE MARRIAGE instead of only
saving the widow for himself?

6.Mary the Copt: Chosen from two Christian slaves given by Egypt
Governor Al-Mouqawqas. What would be the base of his SELECTION over
the less fair Serena?

7.Juwariyah: The captive and BEAUTIFUL widow of a defeated tribe
chief?

8.Raihana: A Jewess widow and orphan of a defeated tribe. Offered
marriage but stayed slave and JEWESS? Why wouldn't he give some
of the captives to his followers to cement further brotherhood?

9.Safiya: The defeated Khaibar Jew leader's widow.

10.Um Habiba: Widowed daughter of Abu Sufyan, separated from her
apostate husband.

11.Maimuna: A political marriage to gain important converts Khalid
Ibn al Waleed and Amr.

12.There are a number of other names in his life. Many slaves at that
time were treated as concubines.
************************

Point 12 is utter rubbish as you could not even
provide any proof or evidence. A for the age of
ayesha , that has been refuted as her age according
to historical evidence was 19 when consummated.

In this case you have already refuted yourself even
before you started. You confirmed the purpose of the
prophet's polygamous marriage and then you started
with your so called conspiracy theory based on the
phrase 'THOU THY BEAUTY ATTRACT THEE'. Too bad for
you , you again have refuted , smoked and kapowed
your argument , this time before it started.

Are you already bankrupt in your arguments that you
are repeating already refuted arguments? Looks like
it , either that you are just like an overgrown baby
who cannot accept defeat and need to rehash the same
refuted argument again and again.
My post of oct16 , 4.08pm from thread : 'Reinventing
justifications for Muhammat marriage to Zainab'

Consider the following :

ref : http://www.christianmarriage.com/home/index.php?name=News&file=articl...
excerpt : '...The Bible does not forbid marrying
your cousin so let's make sure in our
zeal to help others that we don't confuse
what our culture teaches with what the
Bible teaches...'
'...The fact is that cousin marriage was
banned by the Roman Catholic church under
'Pope Gregory I' in an attempt to prevent
the accumulation of wealth and power
within families...'
- Your bible does not ban marriages between cousins or
first cousins. That 'trying to be funny' pope gregory
banned first cousin marriages on the grounds of
material gains NOT religious.

lev18:6-18
The verses did not have cousins or first cousins marriages
as prohibited marriages. In short can you pin point to
me anywhere in your bible that prohibit first cousin
marriages? Who were isaac and rebekah in gen 24? They were
first cousins and they married each other.

ref : http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=religion
excerpt : '...Joseph & Mary-- were first cousins...'

Looks like your ignorance is again exposed. At this
rate you will soon be exposed naked by tomorrow.
You argue without any inkling of the laws of your
own bible. Now you have been caught (again) - a
christian has questioned his own bible. What an
irony ....

Another perverted logic of yours : '...he was allowed
to take to bed women with husbands ...'. You sure?
You are again practicing deception as you are actually
describing the biblical david who lusted for Bathsheba,
the wife of Uriah. He bedded her , got her pregnant and
sent her husband to die in battle. Well that is the
bible and christianity for you ....

For the case of zainab , it has been covered in the
thread 'Reinventing justifications for Muhammat marriage
to Zainab'.

This is ample evidence that you have become so desperate
in your arguments. Repeating already refuted arguments
and lumping all in a thread whereas you boast of one
track mind ...
Post by donie
He could spend more time with his current favorite wife Zainab. And as
you say when Ayesha felt jealous and stirred resentment among his
other wives, Allah was quick to reprimand his wives even to the extent
of Muhammat for possibly divorcing them and awarded better
replacement, widow and VIRGINS.
It appears to be very easy for Muhammat to order revelations to suit
his way with the women he desired.
Ho ho ho , its now zainab his favourite wife. So
when are you going to say that ayesha was his
favourite wife? You did not read and understand
what was posted. The rebuke from Allah was
1. Their lie of insisting that the prophet took
maghafir
2. object was not to check the Holy Prophet only
for making a lawful thing unlawful, but along
with that to warn the holy wives also to the
effect that in their capacity as the Prophet's
wives they had not understood their delicate
responsibilities and had made the Holy Prophet
do a thing which could lead to making a lawful
thing unlawful..

You only have an argument based on fantasy and
deception. You cannot even back up your claim of
divorced threat issued to the wives. Now you are
harping on ‘It may be, if HE DIVORCE YOU …’. Ok
so what is your point? You call it at threat? For
a person who boast of ‘superior’ comprehension ,
that’s very shallow. A threat is like ‘he will
divorce you’. You are so easily refuted , from
tafseer ibn kathir :
'...Maybe his Lord, if he divorces you , will
give him in your place wives better than you,)
and , (but if you help one another against him,
then verily, Allah is his Protector, and Jibril,
and the righteous among the believers; and
after that the angels are his helpers.) I said,
`Messenger of Allah, have you divorced them' He
said, `No.' I stood at the door of the Masjid
and called out at the top of my voice, `The
Messenger of Allah has not divorced his wives...'

Was there any threat? No and as been pointed out
that the prophet himself never issue that threat
and the prophet himself admitted that he had never
divorced his wives.

Try again , this time be honest and factual.
Advising you : be objective not christian.
Post by donie
Post by s***@hotmail.com
2. As pointed out earlier , legally divorce is only
   after the iddah.
Yes. As stated in 65:4, the divorce would be effective after his
pregnant wives deliver their respective babies.
So why are harping on divorcing of pregnant wives
as legally divorce is only affected after iddah.
My advice again : be objective not christian.

Count of you refusing to answer the question = 41

To mock and taunt you :

You still have not answered my question. What is
the use of you being christian if you cannot even
answer a question about your theology. You look
like you are afraid to even answer the appended
question. Why be a christian if you cannot even
justify of your belief? We muslims did not run away
facing your questions. In fact for us muslims facing
your questions was like a stroll in the park. No
problems in answering them.

The question again :
Can you explain to me in logical sense , how can
jesus die for your sins? Prophet Adam(as) sin is
his. He sinned , he has to face the consequences.
Neither you nor I had any agreement with Prophet
Adam (as) to inherit his sin. Why should jesus
die for your sins? He has never in his words
said that he was god and demanded to be worshiped.
He also had never said that he would die for your
sins.

Can you 'advice' me of these contradictory and
confusing issues. Isn't the atonement of sin by
another person a cult behaviour?

sam1528
Tang Beng Khok™
2008-10-17 15:47:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by donie
And your Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal for the
divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment bases.
dont we all know this kind of Alloh so well ??


Alloh, God of wrath , God of no mercy



"For I am the best of all deceivers" (kairun Al Mukareena)
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-20 09:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tang Beng Khok™
Post by donie
And your Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal for the
divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment bases.
dont we all know this kind of Alloh so well ??
Alloh, God of wrath , God of no mercy
"For I am the best of all deceivers" (kairun Al Mukareena)
Same refuted post by the same christian but using a
different nick

Again , someone who talks from fantasy or lying.

The verse in question is 3:34
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/3.htm
54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and
Allah too planned, and the best of planners is
Allah.

The arabic word is 'makr'. You go to any arabic to
english translation you will get the translation
to be plan , plot , strategise.

In arabic 'istihiina-t': try to deceive or betray ;
mistrust.
'i haun, hawan' : deceit ; treachery ; abuse of
confidence

Is it your christian version of the translation of
the Quran to have the meaning of deceiver? If it
is than it is very dubious translation isn't it?

Again I have caught you lying : this must be the
teaching of the prophet for satan 'rasul paulus'
aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter) who admitted
to be deceitful.

sam1528
Loe Boo Hong™
2008-10-20 10:42:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by Tang Beng Khok™
Post by donie
And your Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal for the
divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment bases.
dont we all know this kind of Alloh so well ??
Alloh, God of wrath , God of no mercy
"For I am the best of all deceivers" (kairun Al Mukareena)
Same refuted post by the same christian but using a
different nick
Again , someone who talks from fantasy or lying.
The verse in question is 3:34
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/3.htm
54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and
Allah too planned, and the best of planners is
Allah.
The arabic word is 'makr'. You go to any arabic to
english translation you will get the translation
to be plan , plot , strategise.
In arabic 'istihiina-t': try to deceive or betray ;
mistrust.
'i haun, hawan' : deceit ; treachery ; abuse of
confidence
Is it your christian version of the translation of
the Quran to have the meaning of deceiver? If it
is than it is very dubious translation isn't it?
Again I have caught you lying : this must be the
teaching of the prophet for satan 'rasul paulus'
aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter) who admitted
to be deceitful.
sam1528
naaaaaaah, save that craps !

"For I am the best of all deceivers" (Kairun Al Mukareena)

my gawd, the moon god himself admitted it !

no wonder :))
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-20 14:39:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Loe Boo Hong™
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by Tang Beng Khok™
Post by donie
And your Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal for the
divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment bases.
dont we all know this kind of Alloh so well ??
Alloh, God of wrath , God of no mercy
"For I am the best of all deceivers" (kairun Al Mukareena)
Same refuted post by the same christian but using a
different nick
Again , someone who talks from fantasy or lying.
The verse in question is 3:34
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/3.htm
54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and
    Allah too planned, and the best of planners is
    Allah.
The arabic word is 'makr'. You go to any arabic to
english translation you will get the translation
to be plan , plot , strategise.
In arabic 'istihiina-t': try to deceive or betray ;
mistrust.
'i haun, hawan' : deceit ; treachery ; abuse of
confidence
Is it your christian version of the translation of
the Quran to have the meaning of deceiver? If it
is than it is very dubious translation isn't it?
Again I have caught you lying : this must be the
teaching of the prophet for satan 'rasul paulus'
aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter) who admitted
to be deceitful.
sam1528
naaaaaaah, save that craps !
"For I am the best of all deceivers" (Kairun Al Mukareena)
my gawd, the moon god himself admitted it !
no wonder :))
Oh , you mean that you agreed to the fact that you
had bull shitted. You have been caught out but still
continue to bull shit.

Ok then ...

sam1528
Loe Gie Lha™
2008-10-20 14:53:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Oh , you mean that you agreed to the fact that you
had bull shitted. You have been caught out but still
continue to bull shit.
Ok then ...
sam1528
naaaaaaah, save that craps !

"For I am the best of all deceivers" (Kairun Al Mukareena)

my gawd, the moon god himself admitted it !

no wonder :))
Loe Goh BloQ™
2008-10-20 11:18:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by Tang Beng Khok™
Post by donie
And your Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal for the
divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment bases.
dont we all know this kind of Alloh so well ??
Alloh, God of wrath , God of no mercy
"For I am the best of all deceivers" (kairun Al Mukareena)
Same refuted post by the same christian but using a
different nick
Again , someone who talks from fantasy or lying.
The verse in question is 3:34
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/3.htm
54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and
Allah too planned, and the best of planners is
Allah.
The arabic word is 'makr'. You go to any arabic to
english translation you will get the translation
to be plan , plot , strategise.
In arabic 'istihiina-t': try to deceive or betray ;
mistrust.
'i haun, hawan' : deceit ; treachery ; abuse of
confidence
Is it your christian version of the translation of
the Quran to have the meaning of deceiver? If it
is than it is very dubious translation isn't it?
Again I have caught you lying : this must be the
teaching of the prophet for satan 'rasul paulus'
aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter) who admitted
to be deceitful.
sam1528
yeaahhhhhh ..... and the bla , and the bla, and the bla ....




how can people have trust in what this sammie boy saying, if his

moon god himself has stated it out & clear :

"FOR I AM THE BEST OF ALL DECEIVERS (kairun al mukareena)"
=========================================================



WAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAK, dream on sammie !


Btw, you're not gonna compete with
and beat your own (moon) god
in deceiving people, or are ya sam ??
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-20 14:40:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Loe Goh BloQ™
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by Tang Beng Khok™
Post by donie
And your Allah was further suggesting a heartless deal for the
divorced wives to suckle the baby on payment bases.
dont we all know this kind of Alloh so well ??
Alloh, God of wrath , God of no mercy
"For I am the best of all deceivers" (kairun Al Mukareena)
Same refuted post by the same christian but using a
different nick
Again , someone who talks from fantasy or lying.
The verse in question is 3:34
ref :http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/3.htm
54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and
    Allah too planned, and the best of planners is
    Allah.
The arabic word is 'makr'. You go to any arabic to
english translation you will get the translation
to be plan , plot , strategise.
In arabic 'istihiina-t': try to deceive or betray ;
mistrust.
'i haun, hawan' : deceit ; treachery ; abuse of
confidence
Is it your christian version of the translation of
the Quran to have the meaning of deceiver? If it
is than it is very dubious translation isn't it?
Again I have caught you lying : this must be the
teaching of the prophet for satan 'rasul paulus'
aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter) who admitted
to be deceitful.
sam1528
yeaahhhhhh ..... and the bla , and the bla, and the bla ....
how can people have trust in what this sammie boy saying, if his
"FOR I AM THE BEST OF ALL DECEIVERS (kairun al mukareena)"
=========================================================
WAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAK, dream on sammie !
Btw, you're not gonna compete with
and beat your own (moon) god
in deceiving people, or are ya sam ??
same christian , different name .... :(
Bauw Phe Sieng™
2008-10-20 14:54:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
same christian , different name .... :(
concentrate sammie, concentrate on that particular issue

"For I am the best of all deceivers"

and dont get smarter in dodging,

wakakakakakakakakakakkkkkk
s***@hotmail.com
2008-10-12 10:06:16 UTC
Permalink
 - Isn't it CRUEL for your Allah to make lawful for Muhammat to
divorce
his wives including pregnant women and also devilishly advocating to
HIRE the divorced wives to breastfeed the babies for Muhammat on
payment basis?
===================
Are you sure you got your facts right? In your
effort to twist facts you have somehow have kind
of twisted yourself with your bible as per deut24:1.
 ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?
type=DIV1&byte=741530
[1] When a man hath taken a wife, and married her,
     and it come to pass that she find no favour in
     his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness
     in her: then let him write her a bill of
     divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send
     her out of his house.
 In the actual case , you are talking about your bible.
 Good , now we have a clueless christian in criticism
 of his bible thinking it referred to Prophet Muhammad
 (saw).
 I have repeatly told you that you are clueless. Once
 again you have slapped yourself with regards to wet
 nursing. Even your bible has references to wet nursing
 as 'mother' milk is highly prized and the biblical
 characters were willing to pay for such.
 ref :http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm
 excerpt : '... For a Biblical example of this, see
            Exodus 2:7-10, which I quote below ...'
           '... Miriam offers to call "a nurse" for
            the Egyptian princess. Darby translated
            this as "a wet-nurse." The phrase in Hebrew
=========== cut of Sam's lengthy reply===
This is a typical way Sam avoid embarrassing qoranic passages (in this
case ATT TALAAQ 65:1-6).
By the way nick 'darion' was right. Since you
have been hit left and right , have refuted -
smoked - kapowed your own arguments and have
resorted to lying to present your case , you
are behaving more and more like nick 'mbill'.
Not to mention that you are now the king of
repeating already refuted arguments.

Looks like you are readily putting 'your head
into the toilet bowl' waiting for people to
flush the toilet bowl.

Poor isn't it.

sam1528
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