Discussion:
Pro-independence activist appointed to head Mainland Affairs Council !
(too old to reply)
baldeagle
2008-04-29 06:42:38 UTC
Permalink
A high profile, pro-independence activist from the Lee Teng Hui's era,
Ms Lai Shin-yuan, is appointed to head the Mainland Affairs Council
(MAC) in Taipei. It is a cabinet level appointment
in President Elect's line up of office holders.

Ma has reasons to appoint Ms Lai to head MAC, against the strong
objections of many KMT members who protested against a pro-
independence advocate taking over the MAC.
It is Ma's attempt to placate Taiwanese who failed to vote for him. He
hope to work closely with TSU, the pro-independence party...and the
appointment of Lai is seen as his move in this direction.

As far as Beijing is concerned, it will NOT talk with a pro-
independence activist from Taiwan. Cross straits relationship is
heading towards the freezer again. Ma has made his first serious
mistake..even before his sit in the chair as the President.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2008/04/29/2003410546
PaPaPeng
2008-04-29 07:03:36 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:42:38 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
As far as Beijing is concerned, it will NOT talk with a pro-
independence activist from Taiwan. Cross straits relationship is
heading towards the freezer again. Ma has made his first serious
mistake..even before his sit in the chair as the President.
I don't think Beijing is interested in Taiwan unification talks right
now or in the immediate future. The current status quo is quite
acceptable and China has more urgent affairs to attend to. First
there is the Olympics then the Shanghai World Expo in 2010 both of
which expose China to asymetrical diplomatic and economic warfare.
Furthermore there is this banking crisis and global recession, the
fuel crisis and the food grains crisis. Absorbing Taiwan into China's
economy will bring unpredictable consequences few of which are of
advantage to China. That is unless Taiwan is desperate enough to give
away everything to get into China. The appointment of Ms Lai
Shin-yuan may be one of Ma's brilliant moves. Ms Lai cannot achieve
any progress with China. But in the process she may stumble and
damage her Taiwan Independence support base.
baldeagle
2008-04-29 10:16:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaPaPeng
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:42:38 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
xxx
Post by PaPaPeng
I don't think Beijing is interested in Taiwan unification talks right
now or in the immediate future. The current status quo is quite
acceptable and China has more urgent affairs to attend to. First
there is the Olympics then the Shanghai World Expo in 2010 both of
which expose China to asymetrical diplomatic and economic warfare.
Furthermore there is this banking crisis and global recession, the
fuel crisis and the food grains crisis. Absorbing Taiwan into China's
economy will bring unpredictable consequences few of which are of
advantage to China. That is unless Taiwan is desperate enough to give
away everything to get into China.
You have touched on a number of interesting issues here...will
deal with them later.
Post by PaPaPeng
............The appointment of Ms Lai
Shin-yuan may be one of Ma's brilliant moves.
It is an amateur move...doomed to rile Beijing and
would reverse whatever improvements he had
achieved so far in the relationship with China.
Post by PaPaPeng
Ms Lai cannot achieve any progress with China.
This is expected...why would Ma want to appoint
someone just to ensure that no progress was
made. Is Ma daft ?
Post by PaPaPeng
But in the process she may stumble and damage
her Taiwan Independence support base.
If Ma thinks like you do ...that Ms Lai is stupid
enough to betray her own principle...for Taiwan
independence...then Ma is childish.

She is a shrewd and artful woman....she would damage
relationship with China beyond repair...in order to help
the cause of her party....to work for independence of
Taiwan.
PaPaPeng
2008-04-29 10:33:25 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:16:57 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
If Ma thinks like you do ...that Ms Lai is stupid
enough to betray her own principle...for Taiwan
independence...then Ma is childish.
She is a shrewd and artful woman....she would damage
relationship with China beyond repair...in order to help
the cause of her party....to work for independence of
Taiwan.
The people voted conclusively in the recent elections for better
relations with China. Ms Lai may be artful and shrewed. There is
nothing to say that Ma must follow whatever line Ms Lai takes. If she
uses her position to go against the wishes of the people, and the
President and cabinet of which she is a ranking member, she will only
damage herself and her political party. Once isolated as "not a team
player" she sets herself up to be fired.
Jim Walsh
2008-04-29 12:44:10 UTC
Permalink
The people voted conclusively in the recent elections for better relations
with China.
Sort of. The reasons for voting for the KMT included incompetent
administration of lots of departments and the alleged corruption of Chen's
wife.

And as a candidate Mr. Ma made it very clear that he would not sell out
Taiwan's sovereignty. Which makes him more like Chen than some think.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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p***@freemail.c3.hu
2008-04-29 12:49:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaPaPeng
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:16:57 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
If Ma thinks like you do ...that Ms Lai is stupid
enough to betray her own principle...for Taiwan
independence...then Ma is childish.
She is a shrewd and artful woman....she would damage
relationship with China beyond repair...in order to help
the cause of her party....to work for independence of
Taiwan.
The people voted conclusively in the recent elections for better
relations with China. Ms Lai may be artful and shrewed. There is
nothing to say that Ma must follow whatever line Ms Lai takes. If she
uses her position to go against the wishes of the people, and the
President and cabinet of which she is a ranking member, she will only
damage herself and her political party. Once isolated as "not a team
player" she sets herself up to be fired.
You're still in your cocoon, right?

Which "political party" that Ms. Lai comes from? KMT??

How far can Ms. Lai "damage" "HER Political Party", vis-a-vis CCP,
when she's in the DEEP GREEN CAMP??

The tai-du people don't even give CCP a flying fuck... or you still
don't know this fact, do you?
l***@hotmail.com
2008-04-29 12:54:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@freemail.c3.hu
Post by PaPaPeng
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:16:57 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
If Ma thinks like you do ...that Ms Lai is stupid
enough to betray her own principle...for Taiwan
independence...then Ma is childish.
She is a shrewd and artful woman....she would damage
relationship with China beyond repair...in order to  help
the cause of her party....to work for independence of
Taiwan.
The people voted conclusively in the recent elections for better
relations with China.  Ms Lai may be artful and shrewed.  There is
nothing to say that Ma must follow whatever line Ms Lai takes. If she
uses her position to go against the wishes of the people, and the
President and  cabinet of which she is a ranking member, she will only
damage herself and her political party.  Once isolated as "not a team
player" she sets herself up to be fired.
You're still in your cocoon, right?
Which "political party" that Ms. Lai comes from? KMT??
How far can Ms. Lai "damage" "HER Political Party", vis-a-vis CCP,
when she's in the DEEP GREEN CAMP??
The tai-du people don't even give CCP a flying fuck... or you still
don't know this fact, do you?
May be you misunderstand the other netter. Yes, Lai is from the deep
green. But if she failed to improve economic tie with the mainland
which contributes to Taiwan economically, more middle roaders will
forsake the TI cause for economic reason.
Post by p***@freemail.c3.hu
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Jim Walsh
2008-04-29 13:03:17 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:54:42 +0800, ***@hotmail.com wrote
(in article
May be you misunderstand the other netter. Yes, Lai is from the deep green.
But if she failed to improve economic tie with the mainland which contributes
to Taiwan economically, more middle roaders will forsake the TI cause for
economic reason.
TI was never only about politics. Tying the Taiwanese economy too close to
China (or Japan or America or any other country) is a bad policy.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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p***@freemail.c3.hu
2008-04-30 01:05:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Post by p***@freemail.c3.hu
Post by PaPaPeng
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:16:57 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
If Ma thinks like you do ...that Ms Lai is stupid
enough to betray her own principle...for Taiwan
independence...then Ma is childish.
She is a shrewd and artful woman....she would damage
relationship with China beyond repair...in order to help
the cause of her party....to work for independence of
Taiwan.
The people voted conclusively in the recent elections for better
relations with China. Ms Lai may be artful and shrewed. There is
nothing to say that Ma must follow whatever line Ms Lai takes. If she
uses her position to go against the wishes of the people, and the
President and cabinet of which she is a ranking member, she will only
damage herself and her political party. Once isolated as "not a team
player" she sets herself up to be fired.
You're still in your cocoon, right?
Which "political party" that Ms. Lai comes from? KMT??
How far can Ms. Lai "damage" "HER Political Party", vis-a-vis CCP,
when she's in the DEEP GREEN CAMP??
The tai-du people don't even give CCP a flying fuck... or you still
don't know this fact, do you?
May be you misunderstand the other netter. Yes, Lai is from the deep
green. But if she failed to improve economic tie with the mainland
which contributes to Taiwan economically, more middle roaders will
forsake the TI cause for economic reason.
No, I didn't.

Among the garbage PPP spewed out was the following:

"she will only damage herself and her political party"

You notice the "her political party" thing??

PPP is a dumb motherfucker who doesn't know anything he is saying
himself !!!

What "political party" ??? KMT ???

Ms. Lai isn't from the KMT. She belongs to the DEEPEST GREEN FACTION,
the Ming Lian Dang, controlled by that Japanese asshole Lee Deng Hui.

People like Ms Lai and her comrades from the Ming Lian do not give CCP
any FLYING FUCK whatsoever !
l***@hotmail.com
2008-04-30 01:29:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@freemail.c3.hu
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Post by p***@freemail.c3.hu
Post by PaPaPeng
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:16:57 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
If Ma thinks like you do ...that Ms Lai is stupid
enough to betray her own principle...for Taiwan
independence...then Ma is childish.
She is a shrewd and artful woman....she would damage
relationship with China beyond repair...in order to  help
the cause of her party....to work for independence of
Taiwan.
The people voted conclusively in the recent elections for better
relations with China.  Ms Lai may be artful and shrewed.  There is
nothing to say that Ma must follow whatever line Ms Lai takes. If she
uses her position to go against the wishes of the people, and the
President and  cabinet of which she is a ranking member, she will only
damage herself and her political party.  Once isolated as "not a team
player" she sets herself up to be fired.
You're still in your cocoon, right?
Which "political party" that Ms. Lai comes from? KMT??
How far can Ms. Lai "damage" "HER Political Party", vis-a-vis CCP,
when she's in the DEEP GREEN CAMP??
The tai-du people don't even give CCP a flying fuck... or you still
don't know this fact, do you?
May be you misunderstand the other netter. Yes, Lai is from the deep
green. But if she failed to improve economic tie with the mainland
which contributes to Taiwan economically,  more middle roaders will
forsake the TI cause for economic reason.
No, I didn't.
                "she will only damage herself and her political party"
You notice the "her political party" thing??
PPP is a dumb motherfucker who doesn't know anything he is saying
himself !!!
I don't see anything wrong about that unless one is a TIer. The DPP
doesn't care about CCP either. Results: Tawan's economy deteriorates
and the DPP lost big.
Post by p***@freemail.c3.hu
What "political party" ??? KMT ???
Ms. Lai isn't from the KMT. She belongs to the DEEPEST GREEN FACTION,
the Ming Lian Dang, controlled by that Japanese asshole Lee Deng Hui.
People like Ms Lai and her comrades from the Ming Lian do not give CCP
any FLYING FUCK whatsoever !
So?
Post by p***@freemail.c3.hu
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
baldeagle
2008-04-29 15:33:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaPaPeng
The people voted conclusively in the recent elections for better
relations with China.  Ms Lai may be artful and shrewed.  There is
nothing to say that Ma must follow whatever line Ms Lai takes.
You have a wrong understanding of the organisation
and the process involved.

As chief of MAC, she is the person in direct contact
with the representatives from China...in negotiation
and in all talks on unification.
Ma is responsible for the policy matter regarding unification..
and Lai is supposed to be guided by his policy ...in her
dealings with China.

What is there to stop her from ignoring Ma's policy and as
Taiwan's representative, sabotage Ma...and intentionally
create discord with China ...she caused irrepairablly
damaged to Taiwan's relationship with China.
What is use of sacking her as chief of MAC...after the
damage is done ?
Post by PaPaPeng
she will only damage herself and her political party.  
Damaging relationship with China would harm only
Ma's administration...and help the party she
belong to. ...a step forward towards Taiwan's
independence.
What damage to her political party are you talking
about ?
PaPaPeng
2008-04-29 17:30:10 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:33:55 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
Post by PaPaPeng
The people voted conclusively in the recent elections for better
relations with China.  Ms Lai may be artful and shrewed.  There is
nothing to say that Ma must follow whatever line Ms Lai takes.
You have a wrong understanding of the organisation
and the process involved.
As chief of MAC, she is the person in direct contact
with the representatives from China...in negotiation
and in all talks on unification.
Ma is responsible for the policy matter regarding unification..
and Lai is supposed to be guided by his policy ...in her
dealings with China.
On the contrary I have a very clear understanding of government. Ms
Lai isn't appointed to run an independent Taiwan - China Relations
Policy. No cabinet member has such an authority in any government in
the world. A cabinet member serves at the pleasure of the Head of
State, this being the President or Prime Minister. If a cabinet member
disagrees with her constitutional superior's policies he/she is
obliged to resign or be fired.
Post by baldeagle
What is there to stop her from ignoring Ma's policy and as
Taiwan's representative, sabotage Ma...and intentionally
create discord with China ...she caused irrepairablly
damaged to Taiwan's relationship with China.
What is use of sacking her as chief of MAC...after the
damage is done ?
Then she will have fallen into Ma's trap. When her party (Pan Green?)
was in power she and her boss Chen did their best to antagonize China
and failed. What can she pull out of her hat now can cause China to
blow up. Nothing. I don't follow Taiwan politics. But if Ms Lai is
the best surviving member of the Green Party, and she fumbles this
one, the Greens are done as a political force for good.
Post by baldeagle
Post by PaPaPeng
she will only damage herself and her political party.  
Damaging relationship with China would harm only
Ma's administration...and help the party she
belong to. ...a step forward towards Taiwan's
independence.
What damage to her political party are you talking
about ?
(See above for explanation on damage to the Greens.)

Elsewhere I said that Ma must take into consideration of world opinion
(actually meaning white guy China Bashing countries) when positioning
himself in relations with China. He cannot move ahead of events.
"All" Taiwanese (80 per cent or better) must be perceived as
supporting his policies. At least 40 per cent of Taiwanese voted for
the other party and 40 per cent is not a small group you antagonize
unecessarily. Furthermore negotiations take time, probably years. If
Ma is perceived as a KMT sellout quisling (insert your favorite swear
word here) to China he will lose for Taiwan the goodwill of his most
important supporters, the US, and the EU countries that trade with
Taiwan. This exposes Taiwan and himself to diplomatic attacks and
economic backlash that will cripple Taiwan long before the act of
reunification with China is in place. I hope Ma is as smart as his
initial moves appear to be, that is make the necessary noises that he
is no walkover and China must make serious concessions to Taiwan to
make the talks successful. Ma may have already decided for
reunification. But he still must appear to put up a good fight first.

Reunification is inevitable, by consent or by force. But it really
pays very big dividends to be nice and very correct in the process.
Read Sun Tzu. http://www.sonshi.com/sun5.html

Chapter Three: Planning Attacks
Sun-tzu said:
Generally in warfare, keeping a nation intact is best, destroying a
nation second best;
Therefore, one who is skilled in warfare principles subdues the enemy
without doing battle, takes the enemy's walled city without attacking,
and overthrows the enemy quickly, without protracted warfare. ?
baldeagle
2008-04-29 22:56:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaPaPeng
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:33:55 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
.
Post by PaPaPeng
Post by baldeagle
You have a wrong understanding of the organisation
and the process involved.
As chief of MAC, she is the person in direct contact
with the representatives from China...in negotiation
and in all talks on unification.
Ma is responsible for the policy matter regarding unification..
and Lai is supposed to be guided by his policy ...in her
dealings with China.
On the contrary I have a very clear understanding of government.
Your words here showed otherwise....
Post by PaPaPeng
Ms Lai isn't appointed to run an independent Taiwan - China
Relations Policy.  No cabinet member has such an authority
in any government in the world.  
What do you mean by this statment? Independent Taiwan-China
relation policy.....Who say anything about independent policy.
I was talking about Ms Lai's action, how she deal with China,
in her negotiation with China could damage relationship with
China.
Post by PaPaPeng
A cabinet member serves at the pleasure of the Head of
State, this being the President or Prime Minister.
If a cabinet member disagrees with her constitutional
superior's policies he/she is obliged to resign or be fired.
Even before she is appointed, she has been pro-independence
which is the direct opposite to the policy of Ma's. Why should
she resign for being pro-independence then ? Ma accepted her
pro-independence stance, in the first place.
Instead, Ma's judgement should be questioned. By appointing
her, Ma must also accept her anti-unification actions.
Post by PaPaPeng
Post by baldeagle
What is there to stop her from ignoring Ma's policy and as
Taiwan's representative, sabotage Ma...and intentionally
create discord with China ...she caused irrepairablly
damaged to Taiwan's relationship with China.
What is use of sacking her as chief of MAC...after the
damage is done ?
Then she will have fallen into Ma's trap. When her party (Pan
Green?) was in power she and her boss Chen did their best
to antagonize China and failed.  
What is Ma's declared stance in regard to Taiwan relationship
with China?.... Better relationship with China.
If he intend to improve relationship with China, for obviuos
economic reasons, then he should appoint someone who
would work hard towards this goal...
Surely he is stupid to appoint an anti-unification person like
Ms Lai who would surely sabotage relationship with China...at
every opportunity.
Post by PaPaPeng
What can she pull out of her hat now can cause China to
blow up.  Nothing.
You are wrong...there is plenty opportunities for her to sabotage
relationship with China...from simple things like being rude
and insulting to the China representatives ....to being purposely
unreasonable in all matters at the table when discussing
reunification.
Post by PaPaPeng
I don't follow Taiwan politics.
From your words, your lack of understanding on the role of
MAC is very clear.
Post by PaPaPeng
Elsewhere I said that Ma must take into consideration of world opinion
(actually meaning white guy China Bashing countries)  when positioning
himself in relations with China.
You lack basic understanding in Taiwan relationship with
China. Matters on relationship between Taiwan and Beijing
is PURELY domestic affairs....NOTHING to do with other
countries...including the USA.

It is wrong for the USA to poke their noses in China's
domestic affairs...they have no say whatsoever ..including
the use of force by the PLA.
The US apparent interests is purely commercial and
military in nature...for the sales of arms to Taiwan...and
to use Taiwan as an unsinkable aircraft carrier....in the
event of a conflict with China.
This is wrong...and Ma should not encourage the USA.
Post by PaPaPeng
 He cannot move ahead of events.
Ma is NOT jumping the gun. We are discussing the
wisdom appointing Ms Lai as the head of the MAC.
Post by PaPaPeng
"All" Taiwanese (80 per cent or better) must be perceived as
supporting his policies.
 
Irrelevant ...unless you are saying he is wrong to
improve relationship with China.
Post by PaPaPeng
Reunification is inevitable, by consent or by force.  
Agreed.
Post by PaPaPeng
But it really pays very big dividends to be nice and
very correct in the process.
Agreed again...this is the reason why Ma should appoint
the right person as the head of MAC who will earnestly
work towards this goal.
Post by PaPaPeng
Read Sun Tzu.  
Chapter Three: Planning Attacks
Generally in warfare, keeping a nation intact is best, destroying a
nation second best;
I have been a student of Tsun Tze for decades. You have
mis-applied Tsun Tze's words .... in the present context...
Ma's attempt to improve relations with China.
It is NOT war...nor warfare...not yet at least.
Taiwan has no intention to destroy China...it could not and
has not ability to do so.
China has no intention of destroying Taiwan ...its intention
is to reunite with Taiwan and bring prosperity to both sides.
PaPaPeng
2008-04-30 00:12:45 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:56:05 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
Post by PaPaPeng
On the contrary I have a very clear understanding of government.
Your words here showed otherwise....
Yoh botak ayam. You are responding to my original post and have gone
off on a tangent. I have said what I wanted to say which is Ma seems
to be making the right moves so far. Looks like you will never agree
with me and say that he should be more forceful in making
reunification faster. We can leave it at that.
baldeagle
2008-04-30 00:38:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaPaPeng
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:56:05 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
Post by PaPaPeng
On the contrary I have a very clear understanding of government.
Your words here showed otherwise....
Yoh botak ayam. You are responding to my original post and have gone
off on a tangent. I have said what I wanted to say which is Ma seems
to be making the right moves so far. Looks like you will never agree
with me and say that he should be more forceful in making
reunification faster. We can leave it at that.
This is a free world,.. you have a right to hold your view, rightly
or wrongly.
But, once you make your views public, in this forum,
others like me have a right to challenge your views if it
was questionable..or bias.
I questioned your take on the appointment of Ms Lai as
the head of MAC. So far you have not been able to defend
your questionable stand.

If you choose to stop, it is ok with me. I like to add that...
I enjoyed the discussion.
p***@freemail.c3.hu
2008-04-30 01:10:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaPaPeng
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:33:55 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
Post by PaPaPeng
The people voted conclusively in the recent elections for better
relations with China. Ms Lai may be artful and shrewed. There is
nothing to say that Ma must follow whatever line Ms Lai takes.
You have a wrong understanding of the organisation
and the process involved.
As chief of MAC, she is the person in direct contact
with the representatives from China...in negotiation
and in all talks on unification.
Ma is responsible for the policy matter regarding unification..
and Lai is supposed to be guided by his policy ...in her
dealings with China.
On the contrary I have a very clear understanding of government. Ms
Lai isn't appointed to run an independent Taiwan - China Relations
Policy. No cabinet member has such an authority in any government in
the world. A cabinet member serves at the pleasure of the Head of
State, this being the President or Prime Minister. If a cabinet member
disagrees with her constitutional superior's policies he/she is
obliged to resign or be fired.
Post by baldeagle
What is there to stop her from ignoring Ma's policy and as
Taiwan's representative, sabotage Ma...and intentionally
create discord with China ...she caused irrepairablly
damaged to Taiwan's relationship with China.
What is use of sacking her as chief of MAC...after the
damage is done ?
Then she will have fallen into Ma's trap. When her party (Pan Green?)
was in power she and her boss Chen
What a stupid motherfucker !!!

DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU COME HERE, ASSHOLE !!!

Ms. Lai's party isn't "pan green" or whatever motherfucking thing
you've just cooked up. She is from Lee Deng Hui's Ming Lian, yes, she
sucks the dick of that Japanese MOTHERFUCKER to pass time.
Post by PaPaPeng
did their best to antagonize China
and failed. What can she pull out of her hat now can cause China to
blow up. Nothing. I don't follow Taiwan politics. But if Ms Lai is
the best surviving member of the Green Party, and she fumbles this
one, the Greens are done as a political force for good.
Post by baldeagle
Post by PaPaPeng
she will only damage herself and her political party.
Damaging relationship with China would harm only
Ma's administration...and help the party she
belong to. ...a step forward towards Taiwan's
independence.
What damage to her political party are you talking
about ?
(See above for explanation on damage to the Greens.)
Elsewhere I said that Ma must take into consideration of world opinion
(actually meaning white guy China Bashing countries) when positioning
himself in relations with China. He cannot move ahead of events.
"All" Taiwanese (80 per cent or better) must be perceived as
supporting his policies. At least 40 per cent of Taiwanese voted for
the other party and 40 per cent is not a small group you antagonize
unecessarily. Furthermore negotiations take time, probably years. If
Ma is perceived as a KMT sellout quisling (insert your favorite swear
word here) to China he will lose for Taiwan the goodwill of his most
important supporters, the US, and the EU countries that trade with
Taiwan. This exposes Taiwan and himself to diplomatic attacks and
economic backlash that will cripple Taiwan long before the act of
reunification with China is in place. I hope Ma is as smart as his
initial moves appear to be, that is make the necessary noises that he
is no walkover and China must make serious concessions to Taiwan to
make the talks successful. Ma may have already decided for
reunification. But he still must appear to put up a good fight first.
Reunification is inevitable, by consent or by force. But it really
pays very big dividends to be nice and very correct in the process.
Read Sun Tzu. http://www.sonshi.com/sun5.html
Chapter Three: Planning Attacks
Generally in warfare, keeping a nation intact is best, destroying a
nation second best;
Therefore, one who is skilled in warfare principles subdues the enemy
without doing battle, takes the enemy's walled city without attacking,
and overthrows the enemy quickly, without protracted warfare. ?
PaPaPeng
2008-04-30 10:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@freemail.c3.hu
What a stupid motherfucker !!!
DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU COME HERE, ASSHOLE !!!
Ms. Lai's party isn't "pan green" or whatever motherfucking thing
you've just cooked up. She is from Lee Deng Hui's Ming Lian, yes, she
sucks the dick of that Japanese MOTHERFUCKER to pass time.
Never heard of Ms Lai before this thread or care.
In the scheme of thing what Taiwan does or doesn't do is of little
consequence as Taiwan is not the master of her own fate. That fate is
decided by China and the US. Taiwan is the football being kicked
around. Thus I have little if any interest in internal Taiwan
affairs. I can't tell the difference between Pan Blue or Pan Green or
the KMT or whatever technicolor of party or give a damn. Neither does
anyone outside Taiwan. The only time when anyone wakes up and notices
Taiwan was when CSB was making noise about Taiwan Independence. Even
then Chen never dared to go the final step after two terms of noise
makiing. All he did was a weak attempt to seek "approval" to hold a
referendum on TI (this was the Quebec Independence weasel out
formula.) Thus the recent elections was a very tame affair.

You and botak ayam are two nobodies from a minority race in a Malay
country. You two have no voice in your own homes. Don't flatter
yourselves that by shouting here you become important. Just who the
fuck you two think you are to curse President Ma for being stupid in
appointing Ms Lai and that Ma should immediately sue for
reunification. He is the President of 23 million people. You can't
even teach your cat not to shit on your bed.
Jim Walsh
2008-04-30 13:16:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaPaPeng
In the scheme of thing what Taiwan does or doesn't do is of little
consequence as Taiwan is not the master of her own fate.
Of course it is.

No country in the world can force its will on the Taiwanese (because it has
too many allies willing to defend its freedom).
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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Jim Walsh
2008-04-30 13:18:56 UTC
Permalink
Just who the fuck you two think you are to curse President Ma for being
stupid in appointing Ms Lai
They are free people speaking their minds. And that is all the credentials
they need.

And, in the near future, when you realize how strongly Ma opposes unification
with the CCP, you will be cursing him, too.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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rst0wxyz
2008-04-30 15:00:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
Just who the fuck you two think you are to curse President Ma for being
stupid in appointing Ms Lai
They are free people speaking their minds. And that is all the credentials
they need.
And, in the near future, when you realize how strongly Ma opposes unification
with the CCP, you will be cursing him, too.
Time is ticking away for Taiwan. Time is Taiwan's enemy.
p***@freemail.c3.hu
2008-04-30 01:07:36 UTC
Permalink
You are wasting yer time trying to make sense to that PPP
motherfucker.

He doesn't know anything. He just spew out all types of garbages. And
yet he doesn't give a shit of the reality.

PPP lives with his own garbage inside his own cocoon.
Post by baldeagle
Post by PaPaPeng
The people voted conclusively in the recent elections for better
relations with China. Ms Lai may be artful and shrewed. There is
nothing to say that Ma must follow whatever line Ms Lai takes.
You have a wrong understanding of the organisation
and the process involved.
As chief of MAC, she is the person in direct contact
with the representatives from China...in negotiation
and in all talks on unification.
Ma is responsible for the policy matter regarding unification..
and Lai is supposed to be guided by his policy ...in her
dealings with China.
What is there to stop her from ignoring Ma's policy and as
Taiwan's representative, sabotage Ma...and intentionally
create discord with China ...she caused irrepairablly
damaged to Taiwan's relationship with China.
What is use of sacking her as chief of MAC...after the
damage is done ?
Post by PaPaPeng
she will only damage herself and her political party.
Damaging relationship with China would harm only
Ma's administration...and help the party she
belong to. ...a step forward towards Taiwan's
independence.
What damage to her political party are you talking
about ?
PaPaPeng
2008-04-30 11:51:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@freemail.c3.hu
You are wasting yer time trying to make sense to that PPP
motherfucker.
Do piss off you little twerp.
rst0wxyz
2008-04-30 15:03:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@freemail.c3.hu
You are wasting yer time trying to make sense to that PPP
motherfucker.
You, too, should wash your mouth with clorox and insecticide.
Post by p***@freemail.c3.hu
He doesn't know anything. He just spew out all types of garbages. And
yet he doesn't give a shit of the reality.
PPP lives with his own garbage inside his own cocoon.
Jim Walsh
2008-04-30 13:15:18 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:33:55 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
What is there to stop her from ignoring Ma's policy and as Taiwan's
representative, sabotage Ma...and intentionally create discord with China
Duh, she is a part of Ma's administration. Suppose she were to tell the CCP
that Ma says "X" when he really says "Not X". The error will result in her
being fired. It will not confuse the CCP.

BTW, many CCP bootlickers think (on no evidence) that Ma supports unification
in the near future. Ma, however, has said his policy is "No unification; no
independence, keep the status quo."
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-04-30 14:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
What is there to stop her from ignoring Ma's policy and as Taiwan's
representative, sabotage Ma...and intentionally create discord with China
Duh, she is a part of Ma's administration. Suppose she were to tell the CCP
that Ma says "X" when he really says "Not X". .....
You are an idiot....you duh....

Does she need to change Ma's policy in order to sabotage
relationship with Beijing ?
All she need to do ...to sabotage relationship,...is to
be rude, to be obnoxious in her dealings with Beijing
representative, in meetings, in conference...
find faults with Beijing, its official, its organisations, its
ideas ..criticise Beijing officials, look down at them and
ridicule them........
always be negative to proposals or actions suggested by
Beijing... all the time act within the policy laid down
by Ma.

In no time, relationship with Beijing will be back to
the freezer.
rst0wxyz
2008-04-30 15:07:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
What is there to stop her from ignoring Ma's policy and as Taiwan's
representative, sabotage Ma...and intentionally create discord with China
Duh, she is a part of Ma's administration. Suppose she were to tell the CCP
that Ma says "X" when he really says "Not X". .....
You are an idiot....you duh....
Does she need to change Ma's policy in order to sabotage
relationship with Beijing ?
All she need to do ...to sabotage relationship,...is to
be rude, to be obnoxious in her dealings with Beijing
representative, in meetings, in conference...
find faults with Beijing, its official, its organisations, its
ideas ..criticise Beijing officials,  look down at them and
ridicule them........
always be negative to proposals or actions suggested by
Beijing... all the time act within the policy laid down
by Ma.
In no time, relationship with Beijing will be back to
the freezer.
All Beijing needs to do is to refuse to sit down with her. That
should end her career.
baldeagle
2008-04-30 22:53:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by rst0wxyz
Post by baldeagle
In no time, relationship with Beijing will be back to
the freezer.
All Beijing needs to do is to refuse to sit down with her. That
should end her career.
I can see ...this will happen.
But if China refuse to sit down with her,
relationship with Taiwan will be affected...
and may turn very cold.

She has achieved her goal...to sabotage
relationship with Beijing...to advance the
pro-democracy cause.

Therefore ...if Ma is an honest person, he
has made a serious mistake in appointing
Ms lai as the head of MAC....
I have a sneaky suspicion that Ma
was not sincere when he said that he
wanted to improve relationship with
Beijing.
The appointment of Ms Lai says otherwise.
l***@hotmail.com
2008-04-30 23:20:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by baldeagle
Post by rst0wxyz
Post by baldeagle
In no time, relationship with Beijing will be back to
the freezer.
All Beijing needs to do is to refuse to sit down with her. That
should end her career.
I can see ...this will happen.
But if China refuse to sit down with her,
relationship with Taiwan will be affected...
and may turn very cold.
She has achieved her goal...to sabotage
relationship with Beijing...to advance the
pro-democracy cause.
This is a legitimate concern. But Beijing appears not to mind the
choice. The following two pieces kind of sum up the situation.

1. 两岸关系急冻 胡锦涛家宴上连战非常尴尬与不堪
http://news.wenxuecity.com/messages/200804/news-gb2312-584686.html

KMTers who were visiting China worred about the cross strait relation
will cool down rapidly. Lian Chen felt embarrassed during the dinner
party with Hu.

2. 胡锦涛再度释出善意,且看马英九怎么接球
http://news.wenxuecity.com/messages/200804/news-gb2312-584917.html

Hu once again expressed good will, now the ball was in Ma's court. In
this commentary, the author emphasized the 8 characters phrase which
Hu had said to Lian. They were, "building up mutual trust; seeking
commonness despite differences." Inplication: The appointment would
not change the plan to improve cross strait relationship.
Post by baldeagle
Therefore ...if Ma is an honest person, he
has made a serious mistake in appointing
Ms lai as the head of MAC....
I have a sneaky suspicion that Ma
was not sincere when he said that he
wanted to improve relationship with
Beijing.
The appointment of Ms Lai says otherwise.
Ma was giving the ball to Hu. Hu accepts the challenge. In return,
people are now expecting Ma to do more in return.
Jim Walsh
2008-05-01 06:12:54 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:07:21 +0800, rst0wxyz wrote
(in article
All Beijing needs to do is to refuse to sit down with her. That should end
her career.
Nope. If Ma lets the CCP pick his staff, he might as well resign from the
Presidency.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-04-29 11:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaPaPeng
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:42:38 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
As far as Beijing is concerned, it will NOT talk with a pro-
independence activist from Taiwan. Cross straits relationship is
heading towards the freezer again. Ma has made his first serious
mistake..even before his sit in the chair as the President.
xx
Post by PaPaPeng
I don't think Beijing is interested in Taiwan unification talks right
now or in the immediate future.
Unification with Taiwan stay as the very top in Beijing
agenda...nothing is more important than China's territory
integrity.
China is prepared, even now, to go to war with the USA or
to use force if Taiwan ever declare independence.
This issue rank top, above all else, ....above economic
advancement, trade with other nations, the Olympics,
good relationship with the west....
It is therefore foolish to say that Beijing is not interested
in unification talk.... right now.
Post by PaPaPeng
........... The current status quo is quite acceptable.
Yes. failing to achieve immediate reunification, China
is prepared to accept status quo...ON CONDITION
that both sides sit down to negotiate on the manner
Taiwan would reunite with China...and China do not
allow this status quo to continue indefinitely.
The status quo will expire in 50 years starting from
1997 (as promised by TengXiaoPing)..to give China and
Taiwan time to negotiate and to make preparation.
If negotiation fail eventually, China will have to use force
to reunite with Taiwan.
Post by PaPaPeng
China has more urgent affairs to attend to. First
there is the Olympics then the Shanghai World Expo
in 2010 both of which expose China to asymetrical
diplomatic and economic warfare.
These are minor issues in comparison with unification.
Not enough grounds to delay talks on reunion.
Post by PaPaPeng
Furthermore there is this banking crisis and global
recession, the fuel crisis and the food grains crisis.
Not valid grounds for delaying the top issue in
China's agenda.
Post by PaPaPeng
...............Absorbing Taiwan into China's
economy will bring unpredictable consequences
few of which are of advantage to China.
Yes. It will not be easy...China has to make huge
adjustments ...like it took back Hong Kong in 1997...or
like Germany reunited with East Germany.
Nothing the leaders in Beijing cannot handle.

Few advantage to China ?
You are wrong...just to name two enormous
advantages...
1. Reunification will remove the idea that Taiwan
could be used by the USA as an unsinkable aircraft
carrier in case of war between the US and China.
2. Trade and culture will flourish between China and
Taiwan.
PaPaPeng
2008-04-29 11:22:58 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:00:31 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
Few advantage to China ?
You are wrong...just to name two enormous
advantages...
1. Reunification will remove the idea that Taiwan
could be used by the USA as an unsinkable aircraft
carrier in case of war between the US and China.
2. Trade and culture will flourish between China and
Taiwan.
Taiwan's election cycle is four years. Can you envisage a scenario
where re-unification will happen in this time frame? Not likely. Ma
will have to make his terms acceptable to China and to the world
first. Ma too cannot move too fast and upset the Americans. So Mrs.
Lai is given an impossible job, death by a thousand cuts.

The preceeding scenario is on the assumption that there will not be
any military threats from the US that uses Taiwan as the provocation.
Should Taiwan be an issue on war between the US and China, I agree
with you. Taiwan will be attacked and taken over with overwhelming
force immediately. Taiwan cannot be allowed to fall into enemy hands.
Jim Walsh
2008-04-29 12:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Taiwan's election cycle is four years. Can you envisage a scenario where
re-unification will happen in this time frame? Not likely. Ma will have to
make his terms acceptable to China and to the world first. Ma too cannot
move too fast and upset the Americans. So Mrs. Lai is given an impossible
job, death by a thousand cuts.
Most of the above is reasonable except you have dodged two facts. Ma has
promised not to seek unification without majority support of the voters. He
has also promised not to seek unification until China is a democracy.
The preceeding scenario is on the assumption that there will not be any
military threats from the US that uses Taiwan as the provocation.
I promise the US will not militarily provoke the CCP.
Should Taiwan be an issue on war between the US and China, I agree with you.
Taiwan
will be attacked and taken over with overwhelming force immediately. Taiwan
cannot be allowed to fall into enemy hands.
The PLA is currently unable to take Taiwan. It is not likely to have the
ability to take Taiwan for the indefinite future.

Taiwan is in the hands of the Taiwanese, who (mostly) hate the CCP. So if
"hands of the enemy" means anything, Taiwan has been in the hands of the
enemy since 1947.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-04-29 15:02:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaPaPeng
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:00:31 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
Few advantage to China ?
You are wrong...just to name two enormous
advantages...
1. Reunification will remove the idea that Taiwan
could be used by the USA as an unsinkable aircraft
carrier in case of war between the US and China.
2. Trade and culture will flourish between China and
Taiwan.
Taiwan's election cycle is four years. Can you envisage a scenario
where re-unification will happen in this time frame?
Unification can happened at any time of the year, in
any year...from now. The election cycle is NOT relevant.
Totally non sequitur.
Post by PaPaPeng
Ma will have to make his terms acceptable to China and to
the world first.
Ma has to negotiate the terms of reunification with China.
He does not HAVE to made the terms acceptable
to anyone else...It is none of their business.
It is strictly a domestic matters...between Beijing and
Taiwan.
Post by PaPaPeng
Ma too cannot move too fast and upset the Americans.
Is Taiwan a colony of the USA. If not, why is the USA
in the picture at all.
Post by PaPaPeng
So Mrs. Lai is given an impossible job, death by a thousand cuts.
Your irrational take....not a fact.
Jim Walsh
2008-04-30 13:20:21 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:02:50 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Ma has to negotiate the terms of reunification with China.
That is not going to happen. His campaign speeches made that very clear. He
has no intention of doing that.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-04-30 14:24:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Ma has to negotiate the terms of reunification with China.
That is not going to happen. His campaign speeches made that very clear. He
has no intention of doing that.
Campaign speeches ! Has any politicians has kept
ALL promises made during election campaign?

Only idiots will believe in such speeches.
Jim Walsh
2008-04-29 12:45:10 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:00:31 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Unification with Taiwan stay as the very top in Beijing agenda...nothing is
more important than China's territory integrity.
No. The CCP has ignored the issue (except for making speeches) for 50 years.
It can ignore it for another 50.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-04-29 15:13:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Unification with Taiwan stay as the very top in Beijing agenda...nothing is
more important than China's territory integrity.
No. The CCP has ignored the issue (except for making speeches) for 50 years.
It can ignore it for another 50.
CCP no longer exist in China. The Beijing government
and the PLA are the authorities in charge of reunification
matter.
Beijing allow CKS to live out his remaining years on
the Taiwan Island ...before taking actions to re-establish
effective rule over the island.
Taiwan can choose to fight China, or negotiate a reunification...
Taiwan has a choice.
Taiwan indicated that it rather negotiate...and TengXiaoPing
had given Taiwan 50 yrs from 1997, within which Taiwan must
reunite with China, failing which military force will be used.
Taiwan do not have 50 years now...it has only 41 years
remaining.
Jim Walsh
2008-04-30 13:20:53 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:13:09 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by baldeagle
CCP no longer exist in China.
Ha, ha. Tell that to the CCP.
--
Love, Jim
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crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-04-30 14:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
CCP no longer exist in China.
Ha, ha. Tell that to the CCP.
You obviously has a fossilized brain...from
the age of the cold war.
Post by Jim Walsh
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)
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Jim Walsh
2008-04-30 13:26:34 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:13:09 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Taiwan can choose to fight China, or negotiate a reunification... Taiwan has
a choice. Taiwan indicated that it rather negotiate.
The election of Ma is not evidence of that.

"She (Lai) pledged support for my 'three noes' principle -- no unification,
no independence and no use of force. She also assured me she would subscribe
to my proposal to resume dialogue with Beijing under the '1992 consensus' and
the 'one China, different interpretations' formula," Ma told a press
conference yesterday.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/editorial/taiwan%20issues/2008/04/30/154193/So%2DB
eijing.htm

In summary, President-elect Ma's policy toward China is "no unification, no
independence, and no use of force." And that is what he campaigned on.
--
Love, Jim
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baldeagle
2008-04-30 14:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Taiwan can choose to fight China, or negotiate a reunification... Taiwan has
a choice. Taiwan indicated that it rather negotiate.
The election of Ma is not evidence of that.
Has Ma chosen to fight China ?
Jim Walsh
2008-05-01 06:14:15 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:28:36 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Taiwan can choose to fight China, or negotiate a reunification... Taiwan has
a choice. Taiwan indicated that it rather negotiate.
The election of Ma is not evidence of that.
Has Ma chosen to fight China ?
His campaign promise: no unification, no independence, no force.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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rst0wxyz
2008-04-30 15:12:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Unification with Taiwan stay as the very top in Beijing agenda...nothing is
more important than China's territory integrity.
No. The CCP has ignored the issue (except for making speeches) for 50 years.
It can ignore it for another 50.
CCP  no longer exist in China.  The Beijing government
The CCP is alive and well. In order to be in the Beijing government,
one must be a member of the CCP.
and the PLA are the authorities in charge of  reunification
matter.
The PLA is the power part of the CCP.
Beijing allow CKS to live out his remaining years on
the Taiwan Island ...before taking actions to re-establish
effective rule over the island.
Taiwan can choose to fight China, or negotiate a reunification...
Taiwan has a choice.
Taiwan indicated that it rather negotiate...and TengXiaoPing
had given Taiwan 50 yrs from 1997, within which Taiwan must
reunite with China, failing which military force will be used.
Taiwan do not have 50 years now...it has only 41 years
remaining.
baldeagle
2008-04-30 23:35:47 UTC
Permalink
xx
Post by rst0wxyz
Post by baldeagle
CCP no longer exist in China. The Beijing government
The CCP is alive and well. In order to be in the Beijing government,
one must be a member of the CCP.
In name, yes.
Beijing retain the word "CCP".... for the party that
rule China.
In essence, No...

Communism is dead in China.
China have abolished the communes,.... abolished
the common ownership of land, .....abolish the equal
sharing of misery and rewards...abolished the
wearing of uniform by officials....abolished other
trappings of communism....

China now has a capitalist economy,...encourage
private ownership of properties and land...encourage
private business...private wealth...
Official wear suits and ordinary citizens wear jeans
and designer clothing...

The idiot intentionally refer to the Beijing government...
as "CCP".....meaning, China is under stalin or
Mao communism. Is China still under Mao communism
or capitalism.

In this sense, CCP is dead...not alive.
As for political ideology...China has rejected western
political ideology.
China is ruled under a new Chinese ideology, first
adopted by TengXiaoPing. He put it nicely when
he said..." It does matter whether the cat is black
or white, as long as it catches mice"

Western ideology, including communism, do not
catch mice...had been dumped. China has
adopted a new political system like the one
in Singapore ...which is a good mice catcher.

China's new political system is now a rose...
by any name...smell very sweet.
(apology to Shakespeare)
baldeagle
2008-04-30 23:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by baldeagle
xx
Post by rst0wxyz
Post by baldeagle
CCP no longer exist in China. The Beijing government
The CCP is alive and well. In order to be in the Beijing government,
one must be a member of the CCP.
In name, yes.
Beijing retain the word "CCP".... for the party that
rule China.
In essence, No...
Communism is dead in China.
China have abolished the communes,.... abolished
the common ownership of land, .....abolish the equal
sharing of misery and rewards...abolished the
wearing of uniform by officials....abolished other
trappings of communism....
China now has a capitalist economy,...encourage
private ownership of properties and land...encourage
private business...private wealth...
Official wear suits and ordinary citizens wear jeans
and designer clothing...
The idiot intentionally refer to the Beijing government...
as "CCP".....meaning, China is under stalin or
Mao communism. Is China still under Mao communism
or capitalism.
In this sense, CCP is dead...not alive.
As for political ideology...China has rejected western
political ideology.
China is ruled under a new Chinese ideology, first
adopted by TengXiaoPing. He put it nicely when
he said..." It does matter whether the cat is black
or white, as long as it catches mice"
Western ideology, including communism, do not
catch mice...had been dumped. China has
adopted a new political system like the one
in Singapore ...which is a good mice catcher.
China's new political system is now a rose...
by any name...smell very sweet.
(apology to Shakespeare)
correction : should read "It doesn't matter
whether the cat is black > or white, as long as
it catches mice"
Jim Walsh
2008-05-01 06:15:24 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 1 May 2008 07:35:47 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Communism is dead in China. China have abolished the communes,.... abolished
the common ownership of land, .....abolish the equal sharing of misery and
rewards...abolished the wearing of uniform by officials....abolished other
trappings of communism...
Except for authoritarian one-party rule. Which is the true essence of
communism.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-01 07:30:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Communism is dead in China. China have abolished the communes,.... abolished
the common ownership of land, .....abolish the equal sharing of misery and
rewards...abolished the wearing of uniform by officials....abolished other
trappings of communism...
Except for authoritarian one-party rule. Which is the true essence of
communism.
What is communism...??
what do you know about political ideology ?
Jim Walsh
2008-05-02 07:20:31 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 1 May 2008 15:30:45 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by Jim Walsh
Except for authoritarian one-party rule. Which is the true essence of
communism.
What is communism...?? what do you know about political ideology ?
No sure what your question is.

I first read Marx in high school. I was particularly impressed with
"materialism" and "alienation". I undertook a study of main ideas of
capitalism, socialism, democracy and authoritarianism.

I rejected authoritarianism for three main reasons:
1. Limitations on free expression were both impractical (they reduced
scientific progress) and anti-human (they limited us to the life of a lower
animal).
2. It was contrary to Kant's Categorical Imperative, which I regard as the
central moral principle.
3. In practice it has led to more wars and more suffering, while democratic
governments have, on the average, promoted more peace and less suffering.

The issue between capitalism and socialism was a closer call. I ended up as a
"democratic socialist", a position which I continue to re-evaluate, but have
not changed.

Democratic socialists recognize the creative power of capitalism, so they
allow a wide range for capitalism in the economy. On the other hand, they
recognize the evil of unregulated capitalism, so they adopt some laws (pure
food and drug act, for example).

Meanwhile, in recognition of the obligations of a society to its people, they
create free public schools, libraries, public health insurance, old age
relief and so on and so forth. FYI, most of these institutions did not exist
during Marx's life.

Does that answer your question?
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-02 08:59:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by Jim Walsh
Except for authoritarian one-party rule. Which is the true essence of
communism.
What is communism...?? what do you know about political ideology ?
No sure what your question is.
I first read Marx in high school. I was particularly impressed with
"materialism" and "alienation"...
You wasted you time in school...you are not
educated....not getting what you read. May be
it is you have a flawed intellect.

You called China a communist country....if you
know what is communism...you know that you
are taking absolute nonsense.
J.Venning
2008-05-02 09:17:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by baldeagle
You wasted you time in school...you are not
educated....not getting what you read. May be
it is you have a flawed intellect.
You called China a communist country....if you
know what is communism...you know that you
are taking absolute nonsense.
Maybe he knows it and maybe he doesn't, but this old faggot Walsh has to
show that he has done his daily quota of condemning the Chinese government
in order to be entitled to his monthly handout from the Taiwan government.
He can't go back to the United States, because no one would support such an
old homo like him.
Jim Walsh
2008-05-02 13:15:11 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 2 May 2008 16:59:49 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by Jim Walsh
Except for authoritarian one-party rule. Which is the true essence of
communism.
What is communism...?? what do you know about political ideology ?
No sure what your question is.
I first read Marx in high school. I was particularly impressed with
"materialism" and "alienation"...
You wasted you time in school...you are not
educated....not getting what you read. May be
it is you have a flawed intellect.
You called China a communist country....if you
know what is communism...you know that you
are taking absolute nonsense.
Well, maybe you have heard of Lenin. He developed an idea called (by him)
Democratic Centralism. This idea remains the essential key to understanding
the system of government in the People's Republic of China.

So, in a very deep way, the PRC remains a communist country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_state
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-02 23:44:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by Jim Walsh
Except for authoritarian one-party rule. Which is the true essence of
communism.
What is communism...?? what do you know about political ideology ?
No sure what your question is.
I first read Marx in high school. I was particularly impressed with
"materialism" and "alienation"...
You wasted you time in school...you are not
educated....not getting what you read. May be
it is you have a flawed intellect.
You called China a communist country....if you
know what is communism...you know that you
are taking absolute nonsense.
Well, maybe you have heard of Lenin. ...
Don't digress. You don't know communism if
you called China a communist country...Communist
countries have communes, common ownership of
land and property, no capitalist economy....no
individual choice for consumer goods....people have
no access to luxury home, cars... no individual
billionaires....

You read communism ...but learned nothing.





A
Jim Walsh
2008-05-03 09:02:34 UTC
Permalink
Jim Walsh
2008-05-01 06:16:12 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 1 May 2008 07:35:47 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
China has adopted a new political system like the one in Singapore ...which
is a good mice catcher.
The Singaporeans have freedoms that the Chinese can only dream of.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-01 07:31:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
China has adopted a new political system like the one in Singapore ...which
is a good mice catcher.
The Singaporeans have freedoms that the Chinese can only dream of.
You know nothing about Singapore and the real China.
J.Venning
2008-05-01 07:47:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
China has adopted a new political system like the one in Singapore ...which
is a good mice catcher.
The Singaporeans have freedoms that the Chinese can only dream of.
You know nothing about Singapore and the real China.
He doesn't have to. He is not an authority on these matters; all this
old faggot Walsh does is irritate Chinese people by his daily bigot posts.
He is after all only a failed man, a homosexual troll living on the pittance
of the Taiwan government to smear China.
J.
baldeagle
2008-05-02 01:54:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.Venning
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
Post by baldeagle
...which
is a good mice catcher.
The Singaporeans have freedoms that the Chinese can only dream of.
You know nothing about Singapore and the real China.
He doesn't have to. He is not an authority on these matters; all this
old faggot Walsh does is irritate Chinese people by his daily bigot posts.
He is after all only a failed man, a homosexual troll living on the pittance
of the Taiwan government to smear China.
J.
The trouble with these idiots is that they have
no idea of what China is now... they puke nonsense
thinking China is still under Mao communism.

The fact is...China is NO longer communist, not
democratic, not under a system of government
under western political ideology.

The only regret of many around the world, ..
is that China do not have a General election...
to appoint a leader like the president of USA.

It is debatable whether a general election is
the best way to pick a good leader...it has failed
to do so often, ..idiots like Bush was elected twice...
in a General election.
However, I must say, that the system has
given the USA a few great leaders.. like JFK for
example.

Instead of ...rule by elected an individual, like the USA..
China is ruled by a group of experienced able leaders...not
elected by a general election.

These leaders were first elected at local elections...
After proving to be able leaders, they are then
elected at provincial level. ...If proven again, they
are elected into the National Assembly. The
National Assembly chose the top leadership.

Until the US system is proven to be FLAWLESS..
China see no reasons why it has to follow
the western system of choosing its leadership...
or to adopt a western system of governance.

China prefer the practical system of governance ...started
by the wise TengXiaoPing who quietly abolished the
communist system under Mao.
.
Jim Walsh
2008-05-02 08:11:32 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 2 May 2008 09:54:11 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
The only regret of many around the world, .. is that China do not have a
General election... to appoint a leader like the president of USA.
Speaking as a typical democratic activist, I don't particularly care about a
general election for a president.

I hope that China adopts the parliamentary system (which elects a prime
minister) and never has an elected president.

And in addition to voting, I care about freedom of speech, freedom of
religion, independent courts that follow the law, and so on and so forth.

Electing a president is low on my list.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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Jim Walsh
2008-05-02 07:41:14 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 1 May 2008 15:31:24 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
China has adopted a new political system like the one in Singapore ...which
is a good mice catcher.
The Singaporeans have freedoms that the Chinese can only dream of.
You know nothing about Singapore and the real China.
Well, no. I know a lot about both.

For example, the news media in Singapore is much free-er than in any part of
China except Hong Kong. (Hong Kong is free-er than Singapore, so far.)

FLG, the Roman Catholic Church and so on and so forth are legal in Singapore
and outlaws in the PRC.

Debate over public policies is common in Singapore, virtually forbidden in
the PRC.

The (economic) Freedom Index lists Singapore at #2 (raw score is 90.3, #1 is
Hong Kong). The PRC is at number 126 (raw score is 52.8). FYI, Taiwan is
number 25 (raw score 71.0). http://www.heritage.org/Index/

And the index of countries that includes social and political rights (not
just economic ones) kept by Freedom House puts

(2005)
Singapore 5.4.PF (Partly Free)
PRC 7.6.NF
Taiwan 1.1.F

The first number is Political Rights (Singapore 5). The second number is
Civil Liberties (Singapore 4).

As you can clearly see, Singapore is far ahead of China in all these various
measurements of freedom.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-02 10:59:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
China has adopted a new political system like the one in Singapore ...which
is a good mice catcher.
The Singaporeans have freedoms that the Chinese can only dream of.
You know nothing about Singapore and the real China.
Well, no. I know a lot about both.
For example, the news media in Singapore is much free-er than in any part of
China except Hong Kong. (Hong Kong is free-er than Singapore, so far.)
Don't talk nonsense. I live here and and know the truth
about our news media.
The news media is under the absolute control of the state...it
is a propaganda organ of the ruling party. period.

This clearly show that you don't know a thing about
Singapore or China.

Do you know the real system of governance in
Singapore. Do you know that China has the
similar political ideology as Singapore.
Do you know the basic economic philosophy of
Singapore.
Do you know that China adopted the same
Singapore system?
Do you why China and Singapore are so
successful ?


You don't know.

To you... only human rights.... press freedom...
are the only important things in this world...
Do you know that human life is more important
than human rights
Do you know that the right to economic prosperity
is more important than be able to say ...stupid
things in the media...more important than the
rights to own guns and shot school children.

You don't know.

You see....your value system, like those
of many in the USA ...is thoroughly FLAWED.
Jim Walsh
2008-05-02 13:19:11 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 2 May 2008 18:59:03 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Do you know the basic economic philosophy of Singapore. Do you know that
China adopted the same Singapore system?
Well, please explain why Singapore is #2 in economic freedom but the PRC is
considered mostly unfree.

The CCP does not say it is following the Singapore model. Were it to do so,
Chinese would rejoice their increased freedoms.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-03 00:24:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Do you know the basic economic philosophy of Singapore. Do you know that
China adopted the same Singapore system?
Well, please explain why Singapore is #2 in economic freedom but the PRC is
considered mostly unfree.
You quoted lies from US funded NGOs... Your brain
have been damaged beyond hope by their indoctrination.

Go, read up on the basic economic philosophy of
Singapore. and find out how TengXiaoPing came
to visit Singapore, saw the success of the Singapore
system ,and implement the system soon after he
returned to China.
Post by Jim Walsh
The CCP does not say it is following the Singapore model.
You called the Bejing government CCP again. You
have a damaged brain, not capable of change ..not
capable of facing reality.

Have you heard of the Suzhou project between Singapore
and Beijing, .....have you heard how TengXiaoPing employed
the architect of Singapore economic miracle, Goh Keng
Swee as adviser for China economic developments in the
80s.... have you head that the China central bank followed
Singapore GIC in managing its enormous foreign reserves (over
1 trillion dollars)...

Singapore basic economic philosophy ..is to use foreign
capital to develop its economy. Though now, this has
become the norm, followed by most developing countries,
but back in 1965, all countries around the world
have very restrictive rules, and tariff to prevent foreign
companies from competing with domestic industries.
For example Gandi believe in self sufficiency...would
not allow foreign companies into India in the 50s.

In stark contrast, Singapore set up EDB in the 60s,
to actively court foreign capital,...set up Jurong Township..
for foreign companies......etc. The rest is history.

DengXiaoPing visited Singapore in early 80s, saw
the extraordinary development under this new economic
philosophy...he adoped it for China, ...he opened up
China for foreign investments ...changed laws making
it easy for MNLs to invest in China...enlisted help from
Singapore government to train Chinese executives....the
rest is history again.

Yes. China have not broadcast, nor make a song and dance
about following Singapore economic system. It
quietly followed what Singapore has done...and achieved
the same economic result.

I do not charge you fee for this lesson, but it would
be nice if you show that you could learn...and stop
calling the Beijing government CCP.
Jim Walsh
2008-05-03 08:10:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 3 May 2008 08:24:09 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by baldeagle
You quoted lies from US funded NGOs
When the data refutes your prejudice, pretend it is false.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-03 08:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
You quoted lies from US funded NGOs
When the data refutes your prejudice, pretend it is false.
Data, lies from NGOs are data...
Do you know the meaning of data.
Jim Walsh
2008-05-03 09:20:57 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 3 May 2008 16:17:43 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
You quoted lies from US funded NGOs
When the data refutes your prejudice, pretend it is false.
Data, lies from NGOs are data...
Do you know the meaning of data.
I wonder if you can say that the right to own private property in Singapore
is as weakly protected as it is in China.


The Constitution was amended on March 14, 2004 to include guarantees
regarding private property ("legally obtained private property of the
citizens shall not be violated,") and human rights ("the State respects and
protects human rights.") This was argued by the government to be progress for
Chinese democracy and a sign from CCP that they recognised the need for
change, because the booming Chinese economy had created a new class of rich
and middle class, who wanted protection of their own property.

Wen Jiabao was quoted by the Washington Post as saying, "These amendments of
the Chinese constitution are of great importance to the development of
China." "We will make serious efforts to carry them out in practice." [1] But
subsequently there was no clear indication that the changes were leading to
increased protection for Chinese citizens in terms of human rights or
property rights. Chinese people continue to be arrested for trying to
challenge government decisions (whether they are legal or not), even when
using the law itself. The censure of the media is still in place, as can be
seen by the closure of out-spoken publications, or re-staffing to remove
editors and journalists who have annoyed officials, such as was the case with
the Freezing Point magazine. All from wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-03 12:26:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
You quoted lies from US funded NGOs
When the data refutes your prejudice, pretend it is false.
Data, lies from NGOs are data...
Do you know the meaning of data.
I wonder if you can say that the right to own private property in Singapore
is as weakly protected as it is in China.
Property in Singapore can be acquired by the
government any time...This is how, hundred of
thousands of Singaporean lost their homes and
their farms....

There is absolutely ...no "protection" at all for
Singaporean against government taking over
their properties.

This show that you know nothing about Singapore...
Jim Walsh
2008-05-03 13:49:04 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 3 May 2008 20:26:34 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
You quoted lies from US funded NGOs
When the data refutes your prejudice, pretend it is false.
Data, lies from NGOs are data...
Do you know the meaning of data.
I wonder if you can say that the right to own private property in Singapore
is as weakly protected as it is in China.
Property in Singapore can be acquired by the
government any time...This is how, hundred of
thousands of Singaporean lost their homes and
their farms....
Were that true, Singapore would not be number two in Economic Freedom.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-03 14:28:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
Were that true, Singapore would not be number two in Economic Freedom.
..
Do a google check, if you find the truth about Singapore
law on acquisition of private property..

Like I said before, annual rankings of economic freedom
are lies published by NGOs....Only dupes like you
bother to read it. .. it serve no useful purpose.

If China has no economic freedom, how come tens of
thousand foreign firms are allowed to do business in China..
allowed to start factories in China, allowed to sell products
in China.... .

Think...use your brain...for a change.
Jim Walsh
2008-05-04 04:54:01 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 3 May 2008 22:28:12 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
If China has no economic freedom, how come tens of thousand foreign firms
are allowed to do business in China.. allowed to start factories in China,
allowed to sell products in China.... .
I said that Singapore had a lot of economic freedom (nearly the most, after
Hong Kong).

I said that the PRC does not have a lot of economic freedom.

You changed that to Singapore is not perfect (I agree) and that the PRC has
some economic freedom (I agree).

The most important reasons for investing in Singapore are an honest
government, on unions, protection for property rights, protection for
intellectual property, and low taxes.

The most important reasons for investing in the PRC are an easily bribed
government, no unions, no worker safety laws, no anti-pollution laws, no
protection for intellectual property, and low taxes.

Got it, yet?
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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J.Venning
2008-05-03 08:19:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
When the data refutes your prejudice, pretend it is false.
The ideology of the old faggot Walsh.
Jim Walsh
2008-05-03 08:11:54 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 3 May 2008 08:24:09 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Yes. China have not broadcast, nor make a song and dance about following
Singapore economic system. It quietly followed what Singapore has done...and
achieved the same economic result.
no. False. Singapore has a legal system which honestly follows the laws.
China does not. Singapore has economic freedoms (like NO communes) not found
in China.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-03 08:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Yes. China have not broadcast, nor make a song and dance about following
Singapore economic system. It quietly followed what Singapore has done...and
achieved the same economic result.
no. False. Singapore has a legal system which honestly follows the laws.
China does not. Singapore has economic freedoms (like NO communes) not found
in China.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)
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baldeagle
2008-05-03 08:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Yes. China have not broadcast, nor make a song and dance about following
Singapore economic system. It quietly followed what Singapore has done...and
achieved the same economic result.
no. False. Singapore has a legal system which honestly follows the laws.
China does not. Singapore has economic freedoms (like NO communes) not found
in China.
Legal system.... what legal system? Who say
China follow Singapore legal system ?
You are incoherent.

We are talking about the new economic ideology forged
by Singapore, how china adopted the Singapore system,
and with this new approach to foreign investments...
China made use of foreign capital for economic development
that led to China's economic miracle,
In the process...China had dump communism.
Jim Walsh
2008-05-03 09:23:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 3 May 2008 16:28:52 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Yes. China have not broadcast, nor make a song and dance about following
Singapore economic system. It quietly followed what Singapore has done...and
achieved the same economic result.
no. False. Singapore has a legal system which honestly follows the laws.
China does not. Singapore has economic freedoms (like NO communes) not found
in China.
Legal system.... what legal system? Who say
China follow Singapore legal system ? You are incoherent.
We are talking about the new economic ideology forged
by Singapore,
Singapore economic ideology is based on an honest legal system.
Post by baldeagle
how china adopted the Singapore system,
and with this new approach to foreign investments...
China made use of foreign capital for economic development
that led to China's economic miracle,
In the process...China had dump communism.
No. The operating principle (obedience to the party) is still in place.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-03 14:19:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
Singapore economic ideology is based on an honest legal system.
You know nothing about Singapore.

Laws in any country can be manipulated
There is NO such thing as honest legal
system.
In American, the rich and famous people
like OJ Simpson get away with murder
with a good lawyer...Bush get the US
judges to declare him winner in the election
for the President.
In Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew used the laws
to bankrupt opposition.
Honest legal system exist only in the mind
of stupid, naive idiots.
Jim Walsh
2008-05-03 14:25:40 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 3 May 2008 22:19:14 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
There is NO such thing as honest legal system.
Well take a bunch of black paint. Pour it over Singapore and China. And, what
do you know, they are the same.

But many businesses in Asia add to their contracts that disputes will be
settled by Singapore courts according to Singapore law.

I am not aware of any businesses who, given a free choice, would stipulate
their disputes would be settled by PRC courts.

The difference is huge.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-03 14:31:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
There is NO such thing as honest legal system.
Well take a bunch of black paint. Pour it over Singapore and China. And, what
do you know, they are the same.
But many businesses in Asia add to their contracts that disputes will be
settled by Singapore courts according to Singapore law.
I am not aware of any businesses who, given a free choice, would stipulate
their disputes would be settled by PRC courts.
The difference is huge.
A lot of business man choose to settle
commercial dispute in Singapore court
rather than in the USA.
Do it mean that USA court is inferior ?

Think...don't open you big mouth without
thinking. You sounded stupid.
Jim Walsh
2008-05-04 04:40:20 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 3 May 2008 22:31:36 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
There is NO such thing as honest legal system.
Well take a bunch of black paint. Pour it over Singapore and China. And, what
do you know, they are the same.
But many businesses in Asia add to their contracts that disputes will be
settled by Singapore courts according to Singapore law.
I am not aware of any businesses who, given a free choice, would stipulate
their disputes would be settled by PRC courts.
The difference is huge.
A lot of business man choose to settle
commercial dispute in Singapore court
rather than in the USA.
Do it mean that USA court is inferior ?
Well a US court is an inconvenient place to settle a dispute between two
companies in Asia.


I assume that you don't dispute that the difference is huge.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-04 04:57:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
There is NO such thing as honest legal system.
Well take a bunch of black paint. Pour it over Singapore and China. And, what
do you know, they are the same.
But many businesses in Asia add to their contracts that disputes will be
settled by Singapore courts according to Singapore law.
I am not aware of any businesses who, given a free choice, would stipulate
their disputes would be settled by PRC courts.
The difference is huge.
A lot of business man choose to settle
commercial dispute in Singapore court
rather than in the USA.
Do it mean that USA court is inferior ?
Well a US court is an inconvenient place to settle a dispute between two
companies in Asia.
There is nothing to prevent them from
choosing US courts. The families of victims of
the Silk Air crash in Indonesia and the SIA crash
in Taiwan ....chose US courts.
Post by Jim Walsh
I assume that you don't dispute that the difference is huge.
You implied that because businessmen chose to
settle disputes in Singapore court, China court
is inferior.
Using the same argument, businessmen chose
Singapore instead of US court...does this
mean that US court is inferior.

This is the point...Do not digress... if you can.
Jim Walsh
2008-05-05 05:15:30 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 4 May 2008 12:57:10 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
A lot of business man choose to settle
commercial dispute in Singapore court
rather than in the USA.
Do it mean that USA court is inferior ?
Well a US court is an inconvenient place to settle a dispute between two
companies in Asia.
There is nothing to prevent them from choosing US courts.
Nothing but convenience, I agree.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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Jim Walsh
2008-05-05 05:19:19 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 4 May 2008 12:57:10 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
You implied that because businessmen chose to settle disputes in Singapore
court, China court is inferior. Using the same argument, businessmen chose
Singapore instead of US court...does this mean that US court is inferior.
I did not IMPLY it. I SAID it. So do most observers. Singapore courts are
professional and not influenced in commercial cases by politics.

The PRC courts are not professional and they are always influenced by the CCP
(which is why foreign businesses routinely ensure that a high level CCP
member is a part of their team).

If two businesses in North America decided to choose Singapore courts to
settle their commercial disputes it would be proof that for them, North
American courts were inferior. If many did, it would be evidence of
inferiority. Many do not, so the argument collapses.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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Jim Walsh
2008-05-03 14:26:29 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 3 May 2008 22:19:14 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
In Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew used the laws to bankrupt opposition.
I am aware of that.

In the PRC, the opposition is put in prison, and not allowed to be listed as
a candidate. That is a huge difference.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-03 14:35:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
In Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew used the laws to bankrupt opposition.
I am aware of that.
Are you also aware that OJ Simpson trial and aware the
Bush got the judges to decide his was the winner of
the presidential election.

Are you saying these are honest legal system ?
Jim Walsh
2008-05-04 05:30:47 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 3 May 2008 22:35:06 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
In Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew used the laws to bankrupt opposition.
I am aware of that.
Are you also aware that OJ Simpson trial and aware the
Bush got the judges to decide his was the winner of
the presidential election.
Are you saying these are honest legal system ?
The Singapore legal system is among the best in Asia. America's is among the
best in the world.

Too bad about the Chinese, living in a country were the CCP controls the
courts completely.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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baldeagle
2008-05-04 06:26:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
In Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew used the laws to bankrupt opposition.
I am aware of that.
Are you also aware that OJ Simpson trial and aware the
Bush got the judges to decide his was the winner of
the presidential election.
Are you saying these are honest legal system ?
The Singapore legal system is among the best in Asia. America's is among the
best in the world.
Too bad about the Chinese, living in a country were the CCP controls the
courts completely.
You are wrong on both counts.
J.Venning
2008-05-04 07:06:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
In Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew used the laws to bankrupt opposition.
I am aware of that.
Are you also aware that OJ Simpson trial and aware the
Bush got the judges to decide his was the winner of
the presidential election.
Are you saying these are honest legal system ?
The Singapore legal system is among the best in Asia. America's is among the
best in the world.
Too bad about the Chinese, living in a country were the CCP controls the
courts completely.
You are wrong on both counts.
So, what's new as far as that homo troll Walsh is concerned ?
Jim Walsh
2008-04-29 12:46:36 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:00:31 +0800, baldeagle wrote
(in article
China is prepared to accept status quo...ON CONDITION that both sides sit
down to negotiate on the manner Taiwan would reunite with China..
1. The CCP is prepared to accept the status quo for the indefinite future.
2. The Ma Administration will not sit down to negotiate the manner of
unification. Not.
3. So the CCP had better get used to disappointment.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)


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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
baldeagle
2008-04-29 15:15:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Walsh
(in article
China is prepared to accept status quo...ON CONDITION that both sides sit
down to negotiate on the manner Taiwan would reunite with China..
1. The CCP is prepared to accept the status quo for the indefinite future.
Are you the authority to decide such matter on behalf of the
Beijing government ?
Post by Jim Walsh
2. The Ma Administration will not sit down to negotiate the manner of
unification. Not.
Are you also the authority to decide for Ma's administration ?
J.Venning
2008-04-29 21:10:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
China is prepared to accept status quo...ON CONDITION that both sides sit
down to negotiate on the manner Taiwan would reunite with China..
1. The CCP is prepared to accept the status quo for the indefinite future.
Are you the authority to decide such matter on behalf of the
Beijing government ?
Post by Jim Walsh
2. The Ma Administration will not sit down to negotiate the manner of
unification. Not.
Are you also the authority to decide for Ma's administration ?
This piece of dog shit Walsh thinks he is an authority to tell the
Chinese what to do with their lives and what to do with their government,
but in fact he is nothing but a failed man - a homosexual living off the
pittance of the Taiwan government.
J.
rst0wxyz
2008-04-29 21:45:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by baldeagle
Post by Jim Walsh
sit
down to negotiate on the manner Taiwan would reunite with China..
1. The CCP is prepared to accept the status quo for the indefinite future.
Are you the authority to decide such matter on behalf of the
Beijing government ?
Post by Jim Walsh
2. The Ma Administration will not sit down to negotiate the manner of
unification. Not.
Are you also the authority to decide for Ma's administration ?
    This piece of dog shit Walsh thinks he is an authority to tell the
Chinese what to do with their lives and what to do with their government,
but in fact he is nothing but a failed man - a homosexual living off the
pittance of the Taiwan government.
J.
Or living on a pit in Taiwan.
J.Venning
2008-04-30 09:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by rst0wxyz
Post by J.Venning
This piece of dog shit Walsh thinks he is an authority to tell the
Chinese what to do with their lives and what to do with their government,
but in fact he is nothing but a failed man - a homosexual living off the
pittance of the Taiwan government.
Or living on a pit in Taiwan.
He claimed he is living in a flat on the 14th floor, which in actual
fact is the 13th floor, because buildings don't have a floor that is
labelled 13th floor due to superstition.
J.
l***@hotmail.com
2008-04-29 11:05:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaPaPeng
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:42:38 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
Post by baldeagle
As far as Beijing is concerned, it will NOT talk with a pro-
independence activist from Taiwan. Cross straits relationship is
heading towards the freezer again. Ma has made his first serious
mistake..even before his sit in the chair as the President.
I don't think Beijing is interested in Taiwan unification talks right
now or in the immediate future.  The current status quo is quite
acceptable and China has more urgent affairs to attend to.  First
there is the Olympics then the Shanghai World Expo in 2010 both of
which expose China to asymetrical diplomatic and economic warfare.
Furthermore there is this banking crisis and global recession, the
fuel crisis and the food grains crisis.  Absorbing Taiwan into China's
economy will bring unpredictable consequences few of which are of
advantage to China. That is unless Taiwan is desperate enough to give
away everything to get into China.  The appointment of Ms Lai
Shin-yuan may be one of Ma's brilliant moves.  Ms Lai cannot achieve
any progress with China.  But in the process she may stumble and
damage her Taiwan Independence support base.
Good points. Right now, Taiwanese business people are the most
concerned group. Some were shcoked by the apporintment because Ma had
promosed improved economic ties across the strait. TU and Ms. Lai have
argued against deeper ties. The apporintment is also political in
nature. It gives the TI some voice in the new government. not unlike
CSB appointing Tang Fei as the primier 8 years ago. Tang did not last.
AleXX
2008-04-29 09:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by baldeagle
A high profile, pro-independence activist from the Lee Teng Hui's era,
Ms Lai Shin-yuan, is appointed to head the Mainland Affairs Council
(MAC) in Taipei. It is a cabinet level appointment
in President Elect's line up of office holders.
Ma has reasons to appoint Ms Lai to head MAC, against the strong
objections of many KMT members who protested against a pro-
independence advocate taking over the MAC.
It is Ma's attempt to placate Taiwanese who failed to vote for him. He
hope to work closely with TSU, the pro-independence party...and the
appointment of Lai is seen as his move in this direction.
As far as Beijing is concerned, it will NOT talk with a pro-
independence activist from Taiwan. Cross straits relationship is
heading towards the freezer again. Ma has made his first serious
mistake..even before his sit in the chair as the President.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2008/04/29/2003410546
Taiwan can go independent on condition that it comes under Mainland Chinese
rule.
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