Discussion:
Allow communists to return? No way!
(too old to reply)
XiaoMei
2004-02-23 23:41:09 UTC
Permalink
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!

---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that

THE Government's current position on when to permit former commu-nists to
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.

Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh, democracy had not
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.

To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil three
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing communism,
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be interviewed
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to come home
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST, Feb 12).

Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since independence, we have had
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean, accountable
and efficient governments. The democratic system is well-entrenched and
trusted by all Singaporeans.

As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.

Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government and that,
politically, it is the only way forward for us.

Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death in most
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the Berlin Wall
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people everywhere have
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable in the real
world.

Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to Austria, have
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties and they
have, by and large, been unpopular.

It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans by allowing
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to experience,
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how much we
believe in it.

And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless discover how
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them find out for
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over oppression and
dictatorship.

ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
ardeedee
2004-02-24 04:14:50 UTC
Permalink
Theirs was to destroy Singapore for their gains and in doing so they killed
and maimed and destroyed - let them live their lives in a forgotten land
where they can have much time to rue their fate.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former commu-nists to
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh, democracy had not
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil three
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing communism,
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be interviewed
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to come home
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST, Feb 12).
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since independence, we have had
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean, accountable
and efficient governments. The democratic system is well-entrenched and
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government and that,
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death in most
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the Berlin Wall
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people everywhere have
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable in the real
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to Austria, have
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties and they
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans by allowing
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to experience,
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how much we
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless discover how
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them find out for
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over oppression and
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
Rick
2004-02-24 05:06:34 UTC
Permalink
how much you know about them?
Post by ardeedee
Theirs was to destroy Singapore for their gains and in doing so they killed
and maimed and destroyed - let them live their lives in a forgotten land
where they can have much time to rue their fate.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former commu-nists to
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh, democracy had not
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil three
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing communism,
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be interviewed
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to come home
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST, Feb 12).
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since independence, we have
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean, accountable
and efficient governments. The democratic system is well-entrenched and
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government and that,
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death in most
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the Berlin Wall
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people everywhere have
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable in the
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to Austria,
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties and they
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans by
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how much we
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless discover how
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them find out for
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over oppression and
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
ardeedee
2004-02-24 05:06:07 UTC
Permalink
My grandfather was killed in an ambush at Senai together with his Malay
patrol guards and escorts.
My father was a journalist who reported on the Emergency.He also spent some
time in the jungles to follow his storylines.
My father was also involved in the arrest of a Communist saboteur in
Singapore setting fire to a taxi and killing the driver.
He was also present as a reporter at the Baling talks.

I visited my grandfather at his rubber estate just 3 weeks before he was
killed.
I lived through that period and visited Malaya many times then.
I saw and heard and observed the Emergency at close quarters.
I was in the Police in early 60s when the Communist s in Singapore were
threatening to take over Singapore
politics. I lived in Bukit Panjang and knew that it was the stronghold of
the Communists in Singapore.
I knew a few leftists.

Do you need more ?
Post by Rick
how much you know about them?
Post by ardeedee
Theirs was to destroy Singapore for their gains and in doing so they
killed
Post by ardeedee
and maimed and destroyed - let them live their lives in a forgotten land
where they can have much time to rue their fate.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former commu-nists
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh, democracy had
not
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil three
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing communism,
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be
interviewed
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to come home
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST, Feb
12).
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since independence, we have
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean,
accountable
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is well-entrenched and
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government and
that,
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death in most
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the Berlin
Wall
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people everywhere have
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable in the
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to Austria,
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties and they
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans by
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how much we
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless discover
how
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them find out
for
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over oppression
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
Rick
2004-02-24 05:33:20 UTC
Permalink
In any war, some peoples are killed anyway.
Post by ardeedee
My grandfather was killed in an ambush at Senai together with his Malay
patrol guards and escorts.
My father was a journalist who reported on the Emergency.He also spent some
time in the jungles to follow his storylines.
My father was also involved in the arrest of a Communist saboteur in
Singapore setting fire to a taxi and killing the driver.
He was also present as a reporter at the Baling talks.
I visited my grandfather at his rubber estate just 3 weeks before he was
killed.
I lived through that period and visited Malaya many times then.
I saw and heard and observed the Emergency at close quarters.
I was in the Police in early 60s when the Communist s in Singapore were
threatening to take over Singapore
politics. I lived in Bukit Panjang and knew that it was the stronghold of
the Communists in Singapore.
I knew a few leftists.
Do you need more ?
Post by Rick
how much you know about them?
Post by ardeedee
Theirs was to destroy Singapore for their gains and in doing so they
killed
Post by ardeedee
and maimed and destroyed - let them live their lives in a forgotten land
where they can have much time to rue their fate.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former commu-nists
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh, democracy had
not
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil three
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing
communism,
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be
interviewed
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to come
home
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST, Feb
12).
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since independence, we
have
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean,
accountable
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is well-entrenched
and
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government and
that,
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death in
most
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the Berlin
Wall
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people everywhere
have
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable in
the
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to
Austria,
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties and
they
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans by
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how much
we
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless discover
how
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them find out
for
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over oppression
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
ardeedee
2004-02-24 05:45:21 UTC
Permalink
That was not a war - it was atrocities committed in the name of Communism
as a way of life for Malayans and Singaporeans.
They were terrorists in every meaning of the word designed to instill fear
in the people by creating chaos and mayhem and by murdering and butchering
those who were not acceptable to their intended way of life and thereby
coerce the rest into submission.

What was their way of life - to bring Malaya and Singapore under Communism
that had taken China and which they wished on Malaya and Singapore because
they calculated Communism was unstoppable and they saw themselves in the
leadership when it attains power in this region and of course with power
comes all the trappings of office mainly wealth.

They were not altruistic - they gambled and lost and in gambling they used
lives and property wantonly - they must pay the price of their loss and have
the freedom to wallow in their memories and nightmares of dark deeds in
Thailand or any other place except Singapore because home was never where
their heart was.

What are they to you and why do you question me that you wish them upon us?
Post by Rick
In any war, some peoples are killed anyway.
Post by ardeedee
My grandfather was killed in an ambush at Senai together with his Malay
patrol guards and escorts.
My father was a journalist who reported on the Emergency.He also spent
some
Post by ardeedee
time in the jungles to follow his storylines.
My father was also involved in the arrest of a Communist saboteur in
Singapore setting fire to a taxi and killing the driver.
He was also present as a reporter at the Baling talks.
I visited my grandfather at his rubber estate just 3 weeks before he was
killed.
I lived through that period and visited Malaya many times then.
I saw and heard and observed the Emergency at close quarters.
I was in the Police in early 60s when the Communist s in Singapore were
threatening to take over Singapore
politics. I lived in Bukit Panjang and knew that it was the stronghold of
the Communists in Singapore.
I knew a few leftists.
Do you need more ?
Post by Rick
how much you know about them?
Post by ardeedee
Theirs was to destroy Singapore for their gains and in doing so they
killed
Post by ardeedee
and maimed and destroyed - let them live their lives in a forgotten
land
Post by ardeedee
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
where they can have much time to rue their fate.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former
commu-nists
Post by ardeedee
Post by Rick
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh, democracy
had
Post by ardeedee
Post by Rick
not
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil three
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing
communism,
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be
interviewed
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to come
home
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST, Feb
12).
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since independence, we
have
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean,
accountable
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is
well-entrenched
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government and
that,
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death in
most
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the
Berlin
Post by ardeedee
Post by Rick
Wall
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people everywhere
have
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable in
the
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to
Austria,
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties and
they
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans by
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how much
we
Post by Rick
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless
discover
Post by ardeedee
Post by Rick
how
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them find
out
Post by ardeedee
Post by Rick
for
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over
oppression
Post by ardeedee
Post by Rick
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
ardeedee1
2004-02-25 18:00:12 UTC
Permalink
Yes, you forgot to tell us how you came to be a stinko, stupid,
marginalized, minority.

ardeedee
Post by ardeedee
My grandfather was killed in an ambush at Senai together with his Malay
patrol guards and escorts.
My father was a journalist who reported on the Emergency.He also spent some
time in the jungles to follow his storylines.
My father was also involved in the arrest of a Communist saboteur in
Singapore setting fire to a taxi and killing the driver.
He was also present as a reporter at the Baling talks.
I visited my grandfather at his rubber estate just 3 weeks before he was
killed.
I lived through that period and visited Malaya many times then.
I saw and heard and observed the Emergency at close quarters.
I was in the Police in early 60s when the Communist s in Singapore were
threatening to take over Singapore
politics. I lived in Bukit Panjang and knew that it was the stronghold of
the Communists in Singapore.
I knew a few leftists.
Do you need more ?
ardeedee
2004-02-26 02:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Yes that is why I am Ardeedee1 and you are an imposter - because the brain
you have is below the level of a human being.
Post by ardeedee1
Yes, you forgot to tell us how you came to be a stinko, stupid,
marginalized, minority.
ardeedee
Post by ardeedee
My grandfather was killed in an ambush at Senai together with his Malay
patrol guards and escorts.
My father was a journalist who reported on the Emergency.He also spent some
time in the jungles to follow his storylines.
My father was also involved in the arrest of a Communist saboteur in
Singapore setting fire to a taxi and killing the driver.
He was also present as a reporter at the Baling talks.
I visited my grandfather at his rubber estate just 3 weeks before he was
killed.
I lived through that period and visited Malaya many times then.
I saw and heard and observed the Emergency at close quarters.
I was in the Police in early 60s when the Communist s in Singapore were
threatening to take over Singapore
politics. I lived in Bukit Panjang and knew that it was the stronghold of
the Communists in Singapore.
I knew a few leftists.
Do you need more ?
t***@notrashmagix.com.sg
2004-02-26 04:22:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by ardeedee
My grandfather was killed in an ambush at Senai together with his Malay
patrol guards and escorts.
My father was a journalist who reported on the Emergency.He also spent some
time in the jungles to follow his storylines.
My father was also involved in the arrest of a Communist saboteur in
Singapore setting fire to a taxi and killing the driver.
He was also present as a reporter at the Baling talks.
I visited my grandfather at his rubber estate just 3 weeks before he was
killed.
I lived through that period and visited Malaya many times then.
I saw and heard and observed the Emergency at close quarters.
I was in the Police in early 60s when the Communist s in Singapore were
threatening to take over Singapore
politics. I lived in Bukit Panjang and knew that it was the stronghold of
the Communists in Singapore.
I knew a few leftists.
Do you need more ?
A serani in the police force in the 60's? You must know who Roland
Stevens is


SIAOGU

The husband is the head of the house. The wife is the neck. And the neck turns the head.
ardeedee
2004-02-26 05:12:58 UTC
Permalink
Now drives a taxi - why do you not ask me who Le Cain, or Othman Omar, or
Lionel Chee, or Pennefather or Edwards, or Bakar Moosa etc.?
Post by t***@notrashmagix.com.sg
Post by ardeedee
My grandfather was killed in an ambush at Senai together with his Malay
patrol guards and escorts.
My father was a journalist who reported on the Emergency.He also spent some
time in the jungles to follow his storylines.
My father was also involved in the arrest of a Communist saboteur in
Singapore setting fire to a taxi and killing the driver.
He was also present as a reporter at the Baling talks.
I visited my grandfather at his rubber estate just 3 weeks before he was
killed.
I lived through that period and visited Malaya many times then.
I saw and heard and observed the Emergency at close quarters.
I was in the Police in early 60s when the Communist s in Singapore were
threatening to take over Singapore
politics. I lived in Bukit Panjang and knew that it was the stronghold of
the Communists in Singapore.
I knew a few leftists.
Do you need more ?
A serani in the police force in the 60's? You must know who Roland
Stevens is
SIAOGU
The husband is the head of the house. The wife is the neck. And the neck turns the head.
t***@notrashmagix.com.sg
2004-03-05 09:21:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by ardeedee
Now drives a taxi - why do you not ask me who Le Cain, or Othman Omar, or
Lionel Chee, or Pennefather or Edwards, or Bakar Moosa etc.?
Since you get easily confused, I thought I would make it easy for you
by picking on a serani. I thought he migrated to oz?


SIAOGU

The husband is the head of the house. The wife is the neck. And the neck turns the head.
ardeedee
2004-03-05 13:33:39 UTC
Permalink
You appear to be confused yourself.
Post by t***@notrashmagix.com.sg
Post by ardeedee
Now drives a taxi - why do you not ask me who Le Cain, or Othman Omar, or
Lionel Chee, or Pennefather or Edwards, or Bakar Moosa etc.?
Since you get easily confused, I thought I would make it easy for you
by picking on a serani. I thought he migrated to oz?
SIAOGU
The husband is the head of the house. The wife is the neck. And the neck turns the head.
truth
2004-02-24 12:25:41 UTC
Permalink
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against ex-Singaporean
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former commu-nists to
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh, democracy had not
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil three
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing communism,
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be interviewed
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to come home
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST, Feb 12).
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since independence, we have had
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean, accountable
and efficient governments. The democratic system is well-entrenched and
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government and that,
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death in most
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the Berlin Wall
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people everywhere have
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable in the real
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to Austria, have
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties and they
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans by allowing
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to experience,
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how much we
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless discover how
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them find out for
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over oppression and
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
ardeedee
2004-02-24 13:02:37 UTC
Permalink
It is not because they are Communists or were Communists by idealogy - they
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed property especially of
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their fight except to be made
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not obeyed or are hindered.

It is not their ideology that we are against but the fact they resorted to
violence and used violence with the most extreme atrocities to further their
objectives which in the final analysis was just for personal greed and
ambition.
Post by truth
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against ex-Singaporean
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former commu-nists to
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh, democracy had not
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil three
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing communism,
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be interviewed
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to come home
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST, Feb 12).
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since independence, we have
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean, accountable
and efficient governments. The democratic system is well-entrenched and
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government and that,
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death in most
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the Berlin Wall
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people everywhere have
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable in the
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to Austria,
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties and they
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans by
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how much we
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless discover how
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them find out for
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over oppression and
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
truth
2004-02-24 14:49:39 UTC
Permalink
That is your opinion which I don't share.
The Malayan communists take their instructions
from Communist China. The violence they
engaged in is very small in comparison to those
engaged by the terrorists today. Moreover they
were also targeted at their real enemies and not
innocent people. Of course in the process
innocent people were still hurt but on a much
smaller scale. The terrorists of today targeted
at the innocent people and killed them by the
thousands. If they have a working A bomb I have
no doubt that they will have not hesitation in using
them.
Post by ardeedee
It is not because they are Communists or were Communists by idealogy - they
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed property especially of
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their fight except to be made
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not obeyed or are hindered.
It is not their ideology that we are against but the fact they resorted to
violence and used violence with the most extreme atrocities to further their
objectives which in the final analysis was just for personal greed and
ambition.
Post by truth
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against ex-Singaporean
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former commu-nists
to
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh, democracy had
not
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil three
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing communism,
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be
interviewed
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to come home
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST, Feb
12).
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since independence, we have
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean,
accountable
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is well-entrenched and
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government and
that,
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death in most
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the Berlin
Wall
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people everywhere have
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable in the
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to Austria,
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties and they
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans by
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how much we
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless discover
how
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them find out
for
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over oppression
and
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
ardeedee
2004-02-25 01:14:30 UTC
Permalink
You obviously are not aware of what the Emergency meant in Malaya and
Singapore then.

As you said the Malayan Communists took their instructions from China. Hence
their allegiance was to China and they did not intend to liberate China from
the imperialist British but to supplant the British as a colonial master.

They did not aim to kill only the selected govt or British targets but also
targets in civilian populations that could create chaos and economic
destruction and instill fear of obedience - the killing was on a daily basis
for the best part of the first 7-8 years and each day there was a situation
report detailing how many casualties and murders took place.

The death toll must run into the thousands - what is the difference to kill
thousands in one blow or to kill the same thousands in several blows?

Chin Peng looked healthy and hearty when he attended the Baling talks and
suggested he did not suffer same deprivation and ordeals in the jungles as
his men did - like he was having a good life at the expense of his fighters.

The present JI Muslim extremists ideals are more noble that they want to
have a holy war against the infidels of the West which is basically
altruistic unlike Chin Peng who saw his goal as a Malayan/Singapore leader
harking to the great Chinese Communist leader Mao with all the trappings of
such a leader.

I lived through the period and saw the Emergency at close quarters and from
inside out and I can tell you that it was not a war of independence by
freedom fighters but a guerilla war of attrition designed to further the
interests of one segment of society by any means possible even if no one was
standing at the end of it.
Post by truth
That is your opinion which I don't share.
The Malayan communists take their instructions
from Communist China. The violence they
engaged in is very small in comparison to those
engaged by the terrorists today. Moreover they
were also targeted at their real enemies and not
innocent people. Of course in the process
innocent people were still hurt but on a much
smaller scale. The terrorists of today targeted
at the innocent people and killed them by the
thousands. If they have a working A bomb I have
no doubt that they will have not hesitation in using
them.
Post by ardeedee
It is not because they are Communists or were Communists by idealogy -
they
Post by ardeedee
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed property especially of
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their fight except to be made
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not obeyed or are hindered.
It is not their ideology that we are against but the fact they resorted to
violence and used violence with the most extreme atrocities to further
their
Post by ardeedee
objectives which in the final analysis was just for personal greed and
ambition.
Post by truth
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against ex-Singaporean
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former commu-nists
to
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh, democracy had
not
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil three
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing
communism,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be
interviewed
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to come
home
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST, Feb
12).
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since independence, we
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean,
accountable
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is well-entrenched
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government and
that,
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death in
most
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the Berlin
Wall
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people everywhere
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable in
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to
Austria,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties and
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans by
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how much
we
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless discover
how
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them find out
for
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over oppression
and
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
truth
2004-02-25 02:06:35 UTC
Permalink
How many innocent people were killed
during the "emergency" ?
Please detail the kind of atrocities that you projected.
You tend to assume too much. Just because you lived
thru the period and someone who don't agree with you
must not have live thru that period and therefore you
must be a more authoritative source of info on the
communist on that period. I don't buy these sort of
reasoning. Full of loopholes.
If they allowed Communist from China to become
Singapore PR, why they don't allowed Singaporean
Communist to come back ?
You still have not been able to show me a good reason
why.
Bringing in all these so called atrocities and comparing
them to terrorist is just your way of fudging the issue.
Post by ardeedee
You obviously are not aware of what the Emergency meant in Malaya and
Singapore then.
As you said the Malayan Communists took their instructions from China. Hence
their allegiance was to China and they did not intend to liberate China from
the imperialist British but to supplant the British as a colonial master.
They did not aim to kill only the selected govt or British targets but also
targets in civilian populations that could create chaos and economic
destruction and instill fear of obedience - the killing was on a daily basis
for the best part of the first 7-8 years and each day there was a situation
report detailing how many casualties and murders took place.
The death toll must run into the thousands - what is the difference to kill
thousands in one blow or to kill the same thousands in several blows?
Chin Peng looked healthy and hearty when he attended the Baling talks and
suggested he did not suffer same deprivation and ordeals in the jungles as
his men did - like he was having a good life at the expense of his fighters.
The present JI Muslim extremists ideals are more noble that they want to
have a holy war against the infidels of the West which is basically
altruistic unlike Chin Peng who saw his goal as a Malayan/Singapore leader
harking to the great Chinese Communist leader Mao with all the trappings of
such a leader.
I lived through the period and saw the Emergency at close quarters and from
inside out and I can tell you that it was not a war of independence by
freedom fighters but a guerilla war of attrition designed to further the
interests of one segment of society by any means possible even if no one was
standing at the end of it.
Post by truth
That is your opinion which I don't share.
The Malayan communists take their instructions
from Communist China. The violence they
engaged in is very small in comparison to those
engaged by the terrorists today. Moreover they
were also targeted at their real enemies and not
innocent people. Of course in the process
innocent people were still hurt but on a much
smaller scale. The terrorists of today targeted
at the innocent people and killed them by the
thousands. If they have a working A bomb I have
no doubt that they will have not hesitation in using
them.
Post by ardeedee
It is not because they are Communists or were Communists by idealogy -
they
Post by ardeedee
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed property
especially
Post by ardeedee
of
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their fight except to be
made
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not obeyed or are
hindered.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
It is not their ideology that we are against but the fact they
resorted
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
violence and used violence with the most extreme atrocities to further
their
Post by ardeedee
objectives which in the final analysis was just for personal greed and
ambition.
Post by truth
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against ex-Singaporean
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former
commu-nists
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh, democracy
had
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil three
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing
communism,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be
interviewed
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to come
home
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST, Feb
12).
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since independence, we
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean,
accountable
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is
well-entrenched
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government and
that,
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death in
most
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the
Berlin
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Wall
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people everywhere
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable in
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to
Austria,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties and
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans by
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how much
we
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless
discover
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
how
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them find
out
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
for
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over
oppression
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
ardeedee
2004-02-25 02:32:26 UTC
Permalink
I think you are hard of understanding .
Not only did I live through the period I also said that I lost one
grandfather to the terrorists and my father was a journalist specializing in
that field and that he also attended the Baling talks and hence I can say I
have the inside track on the news of that time.

There were thousands of casualties even on the civilian sides and especially
on the civilian side including many Chinese who either refused to be
extorted or were branded govt people and thereby marked out for death - by
simply killing them. Atrocities were committed on a daily basis. You could
not travel easily to KL or Ipoh by road without the danger of an attack at
any time even if the road were guarded heavily.

You are born too late to know what atrocities were committed and for the
first 7-8 years the Communists were winning the war untill Gen.Templer
segregated and fenced out the villages and made them protected areas from
the incursions of the terrorists. This reduced the terrorists demands on the
villages for food and money etc and thereby they slowly starved. The
villagers also grew more defiant and the war turned against the terrorists.

If you want to counter my living experience check the stats and information
of the times and come up with more substantive findings - not your derision.

Communists ideologically were not committing an offence per se - but were
misguided at best - but those terrorists who were murderers and who
committed atrocities against civilians must pay the penalty like any other
murderer.
Those willing to face the war crimes tribunals on the atrocities they
committed are welcome to return if they are found innocent.

You have no right to dispute the atrocities of the Emergency expounded by me
from first hand experience based on your ignorance - because you are stupid
and refuse to learn does not mean the atrocities were not committed.
Post by truth
How many innocent people were killed
during the "emergency" ?
Please detail the kind of atrocities that you projected.
You tend to assume too much. Just because you lived
thru the period and someone who don't agree with you
must not have live thru that period and therefore you
must be a more authoritative source of info on the
communist on that period. I don't buy these sort of
reasoning. Full of loopholes.
If they allowed Communist from China to become
Singapore PR, why they don't allowed Singaporean
Communist to come back ?
You still have not been able to show me a good reason
why.
Bringing in all these so called atrocities and comparing
them to terrorist is just your way of fudging the issue.
Post by ardeedee
You obviously are not aware of what the Emergency meant in Malaya and
Singapore then.
As you said the Malayan Communists took their instructions from China.
Hence
Post by ardeedee
their allegiance was to China and they did not intend to liberate China
from
Post by ardeedee
the imperialist British but to supplant the British as a colonial master.
They did not aim to kill only the selected govt or British targets but
also
Post by ardeedee
targets in civilian populations that could create chaos and economic
destruction and instill fear of obedience - the killing was on a daily
basis
Post by ardeedee
for the best part of the first 7-8 years and each day there was a
situation
Post by ardeedee
report detailing how many casualties and murders took place.
The death toll must run into the thousands - what is the difference to
kill
Post by ardeedee
thousands in one blow or to kill the same thousands in several blows?
Chin Peng looked healthy and hearty when he attended the Baling talks and
suggested he did not suffer same deprivation and ordeals in the jungles as
his men did - like he was having a good life at the expense of his
fighters.
Post by ardeedee
The present JI Muslim extremists ideals are more noble that they want to
have a holy war against the infidels of the West which is basically
altruistic unlike Chin Peng who saw his goal as a Malayan/Singapore leader
harking to the great Chinese Communist leader Mao with all the trappings
of
Post by ardeedee
such a leader.
I lived through the period and saw the Emergency at close quarters and
from
Post by ardeedee
inside out and I can tell you that it was not a war of independence by
freedom fighters but a guerilla war of attrition designed to further the
interests of one segment of society by any means possible even if no one
was
Post by ardeedee
standing at the end of it.
Post by truth
That is your opinion which I don't share.
The Malayan communists take their instructions
from Communist China. The violence they
engaged in is very small in comparison to those
engaged by the terrorists today. Moreover they
were also targeted at their real enemies and not
innocent people. Of course in the process
innocent people were still hurt but on a much
smaller scale. The terrorists of today targeted
at the innocent people and killed them by the
thousands. If they have a working A bomb I have
no doubt that they will have not hesitation in using
them.
Post by ardeedee
It is not because they are Communists or were Communists by idealogy -
they
Post by ardeedee
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed property
especially
Post by ardeedee
of
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their fight except to be
made
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not obeyed or are
hindered.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
It is not their ideology that we are against but the fact they
resorted
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
violence and used violence with the most extreme atrocities to further
their
Post by ardeedee
objectives which in the final analysis was just for personal greed and
ambition.
Post by truth
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against ex-Singaporean
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former
commu-nists
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh, democracy
had
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil
three
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing
communism,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be
interviewed
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to come
home
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST,
Feb
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
12).
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since independence, we
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean,
accountable
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is
well-entrenched
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
that,
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
most
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the
Berlin
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Wall
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people
everywhere
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to
Austria,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans
by
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how
much
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
we
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless
discover
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
how
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them find
out
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
for
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over
oppression
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
truth
2004-02-25 02:49:57 UTC
Permalink
Far from it. I only want to find out more of what
you claimed to know.
Let it also be known that there are other accounts of
this emergency. Your perspective is only but a small
window. Harry has given his side of this sad episode
so has Chin Peng. That different sides give different
accounts of the same event is not surprising.
I was and am never a fan of communism. I hate communism
but I also want to be fair to all sides which is why I
give you plenty of chance to pour out your greviences
against the communist insurgency. I will equally give
the same proportion of my ear to the Malayan communist
side of their story.
Post by ardeedee
I think you are hard of understanding .
Not only did I live through the period I also said that I lost one
grandfather to the terrorists and my father was a journalist specializing in
that field and that he also attended the Baling talks and hence I can say I
have the inside track on the news of that time.
There were thousands of casualties even on the civilian sides and especially
on the civilian side including many Chinese who either refused to be
extorted or were branded govt people and thereby marked out for death - by
simply killing them. Atrocities were committed on a daily basis. You could
not travel easily to KL or Ipoh by road without the danger of an attack at
any time even if the road were guarded heavily.
You are born too late to know what atrocities were committed and for the
first 7-8 years the Communists were winning the war untill Gen.Templer
segregated and fenced out the villages and made them protected areas from
the incursions of the terrorists. This reduced the terrorists demands on the
villages for food and money etc and thereby they slowly starved. The
villagers also grew more defiant and the war turned against the terrorists.
If you want to counter my living experience check the stats and information
of the times and come up with more substantive findings - not your derision.
Communists ideologically were not committing an offence per se - but were
misguided at best - but those terrorists who were murderers and who
committed atrocities against civilians must pay the penalty like any other
murderer.
Those willing to face the war crimes tribunals on the atrocities they
committed are welcome to return if they are found innocent.
You have no right to dispute the atrocities of the Emergency expounded by me
from first hand experience based on your ignorance - because you are stupid
and refuse to learn does not mean the atrocities were not committed.
Post by truth
How many innocent people were killed
during the "emergency" ?
Please detail the kind of atrocities that you projected.
You tend to assume too much. Just because you lived
thru the period and someone who don't agree with you
must not have live thru that period and therefore you
must be a more authoritative source of info on the
communist on that period. I don't buy these sort of
reasoning. Full of loopholes.
If they allowed Communist from China to become
Singapore PR, why they don't allowed Singaporean
Communist to come back ?
You still have not been able to show me a good reason
why.
Bringing in all these so called atrocities and comparing
them to terrorist is just your way of fudging the issue.
Post by ardeedee
You obviously are not aware of what the Emergency meant in Malaya and
Singapore then.
As you said the Malayan Communists took their instructions from China.
Hence
Post by ardeedee
their allegiance was to China and they did not intend to liberate China
from
Post by ardeedee
the imperialist British but to supplant the British as a colonial
master.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
They did not aim to kill only the selected govt or British targets but
also
Post by ardeedee
targets in civilian populations that could create chaos and economic
destruction and instill fear of obedience - the killing was on a daily
basis
Post by ardeedee
for the best part of the first 7-8 years and each day there was a
situation
Post by ardeedee
report detailing how many casualties and murders took place.
The death toll must run into the thousands - what is the difference to
kill
Post by ardeedee
thousands in one blow or to kill the same thousands in several blows?
Chin Peng looked healthy and hearty when he attended the Baling talks
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
suggested he did not suffer same deprivation and ordeals in the
jungles
Post by ardeedee
as
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
his men did - like he was having a good life at the expense of his
fighters.
Post by ardeedee
The present JI Muslim extremists ideals are more noble that they want to
have a holy war against the infidels of the West which is basically
altruistic unlike Chin Peng who saw his goal as a Malayan/Singapore
leader
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
harking to the great Chinese Communist leader Mao with all the trappings
of
Post by ardeedee
such a leader.
I lived through the period and saw the Emergency at close quarters and
from
Post by ardeedee
inside out and I can tell you that it was not a war of independence by
freedom fighters but a guerilla war of attrition designed to further the
interests of one segment of society by any means possible even if no one
was
Post by ardeedee
standing at the end of it.
Post by truth
That is your opinion which I don't share.
The Malayan communists take their instructions
from Communist China. The violence they
engaged in is very small in comparison to those
engaged by the terrorists today. Moreover they
were also targeted at their real enemies and not
innocent people. Of course in the process
innocent people were still hurt but on a much
smaller scale. The terrorists of today targeted
at the innocent people and killed them by the
thousands. If they have a working A bomb I have
no doubt that they will have not hesitation in using
them.
Post by ardeedee
It is not because they are Communists or were Communists by
idealogy -
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed property
especially
Post by ardeedee
of
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their fight except to
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
made
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not obeyed or are
hindered.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
It is not their ideology that we are against but the fact they
resorted
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
violence and used violence with the most extreme atrocities to
further
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
their
Post by ardeedee
objectives which in the final analysis was just for personal greed
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
ambition.
Post by truth
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against ex-Singaporean
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former
commu-nists
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years ago.
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh,
democracy
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
had
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil
three
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing
communism,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be
interviewed
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to
come
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
home
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions'; ST,
Feb
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
12).
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since
independence,
Post by ardeedee
we
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean,
accountable
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is
well-entrenched
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of government
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
that,
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural death
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
most
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the
Berlin
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Wall
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people
everywhere
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not practicable
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to
Austria,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political parties
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in Singaporeans
by
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return to
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and how
much
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
we
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless
discover
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
how
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them
find
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
out
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
for
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over
oppression
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
ardeedee
2004-02-25 03:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Harry was not in this area at the time - he was in London until late in the
Emergency when the tide had turned.

Chin Peng is the perpetrator of the war and its atrocities and is obviously
trying his best to deflect criticism.
Let me be clear and you can read my lips on this - the Communist terrorists
in Malaya had little nationalism of the country in them except for the
Communist cause ala China.

You must also grow up and get out of the mindset that Communists are
altruistic and driven only by ideology - they also know how to enjoy
themselves although they do not have enough material gains to pass to the
next generation.

You must browse through the archives of the times to reconcile your sense of
fairness - as it is not fair if you take the middle road when the atrocities
were instigated by one side.
Post by truth
Far from it. I only want to find out more of what
you claimed to know.
Let it also be known that there are other accounts of
this emergency. Your perspective is only but a small
window. Harry has given his side of this sad episode
so has Chin Peng. That different sides give different
accounts of the same event is not surprising.
I was and am never a fan of communism. I hate communism
but I also want to be fair to all sides which is why I
give you plenty of chance to pour out your greviences
against the communist insurgency. I will equally give
the same proportion of my ear to the Malayan communist
side of their story.
Post by ardeedee
I think you are hard of understanding .
Not only did I live through the period I also said that I lost one
grandfather to the terrorists and my father was a journalist
specializing
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
that field and that he also attended the Baling talks and hence I can
say
Post by truth
I
Post by ardeedee
have the inside track on the news of that time.
There were thousands of casualties even on the civilian sides and
especially
Post by ardeedee
on the civilian side including many Chinese who either refused to be
extorted or were branded govt people and thereby marked out for death - by
simply killing them. Atrocities were committed on a daily basis. You could
not travel easily to KL or Ipoh by road without the danger of an attack at
any time even if the road were guarded heavily.
You are born too late to know what atrocities were committed and for the
first 7-8 years the Communists were winning the war untill Gen.Templer
segregated and fenced out the villages and made them protected areas from
the incursions of the terrorists. This reduced the terrorists demands on
the
Post by ardeedee
villages for food and money etc and thereby they slowly starved. The
villagers also grew more defiant and the war turned against the
terrorists.
Post by ardeedee
If you want to counter my living experience check the stats and
information
Post by ardeedee
of the times and come up with more substantive findings - not your
derision.
Post by ardeedee
Communists ideologically were not committing an offence per se - but
were
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
misguided at best - but those terrorists who were murderers and who
committed atrocities against civilians must pay the penalty like any
other
Post by ardeedee
murderer.
Those willing to face the war crimes tribunals on the atrocities they
committed are welcome to return if they are found innocent.
You have no right to dispute the atrocities of the Emergency expounded
by
Post by truth
me
Post by ardeedee
from first hand experience based on your ignorance - because you are
stupid
Post by ardeedee
and refuse to learn does not mean the atrocities were not committed.
Post by truth
How many innocent people were killed
during the "emergency" ?
Please detail the kind of atrocities that you projected.
You tend to assume too much. Just because you lived
thru the period and someone who don't agree with you
must not have live thru that period and therefore you
must be a more authoritative source of info on the
communist on that period. I don't buy these sort of
reasoning. Full of loopholes.
If they allowed Communist from China to become
Singapore PR, why they don't allowed Singaporean
Communist to come back ?
You still have not been able to show me a good reason
why.
Bringing in all these so called atrocities and comparing
them to terrorist is just your way of fudging the issue.
Post by ardeedee
You obviously are not aware of what the Emergency meant in Malaya and
Singapore then.
As you said the Malayan Communists took their instructions from China.
Hence
Post by ardeedee
their allegiance was to China and they did not intend to liberate
China
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
the imperialist British but to supplant the British as a colonial
master.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
They did not aim to kill only the selected govt or British targets but
also
Post by ardeedee
targets in civilian populations that could create chaos and economic
destruction and instill fear of obedience - the killing was on a daily
basis
Post by ardeedee
for the best part of the first 7-8 years and each day there was a
situation
Post by ardeedee
report detailing how many casualties and murders took place.
The death toll must run into the thousands - what is the difference to
kill
Post by ardeedee
thousands in one blow or to kill the same thousands in several blows?
Chin Peng looked healthy and hearty when he attended the Baling talks
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
suggested he did not suffer same deprivation and ordeals in the
jungles
Post by ardeedee
as
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
his men did - like he was having a good life at the expense of his
fighters.
Post by ardeedee
The present JI Muslim extremists ideals are more noble that they
want
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
have a holy war against the infidels of the West which is basically
altruistic unlike Chin Peng who saw his goal as a Malayan/Singapore
leader
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
harking to the great Chinese Communist leader Mao with all the
trappings
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
of
Post by ardeedee
such a leader.
I lived through the period and saw the Emergency at close quarters and
from
Post by ardeedee
inside out and I can tell you that it was not a war of independence by
freedom fighters but a guerilla war of attrition designed to further
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
interests of one segment of society by any means possible even if no
one
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
was
Post by ardeedee
standing at the end of it.
Post by truth
That is your opinion which I don't share.
The Malayan communists take their instructions
from Communist China. The violence they
engaged in is very small in comparison to those
engaged by the terrorists today. Moreover they
were also targeted at their real enemies and not
innocent people. Of course in the process
innocent people were still hurt but on a much
smaller scale. The terrorists of today targeted
at the innocent people and killed them by the
thousands. If they have a working A bomb I have
no doubt that they will have not hesitation in using
them.
Post by ardeedee
It is not because they are Communists or were Communists by
idealogy -
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed property
especially
Post by ardeedee
of
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their fight except to
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
made
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not obeyed or are
hindered.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
It is not their ideology that we are against but the fact they
resorted
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
violence and used violence with the most extreme atrocities to
further
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
their
Post by ardeedee
objectives which in the final analysis was just for personal greed
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
ambition.
Post by truth
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against ex-Singaporean
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former
commu-nists
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years
ago.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh,
democracy
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
had
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists fulfil
three
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing
communism,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree to be
interviewed
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed to
come
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
home
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions';
ST,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Feb
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
12).
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since
independence,
Post by ardeedee
we
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in clean,
accountable
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is
well-entrenched
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated and
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of
government
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
that,
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural
death
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
most
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and the
Berlin
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Wall
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people
everywhere
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not
practicable
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from Britain to
Austria,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political
parties
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in
Singaporeans
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
by
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and
how
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
much
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
we
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless
discover
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
how
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let them
find
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
out
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
for
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over
oppression
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
truth
2004-02-25 05:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Where did I mentioned that the Communist are altruistic. I know only
too well that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
including the communists.
Post by ardeedee
Harry was not in this area at the time - he was in London until late in the
Emergency when the tide had turned.
Chin Peng is the perpetrator of the war and its atrocities and is obviously
trying his best to deflect criticism.
Let me be clear and you can read my lips on this - the Communist terrorists
in Malaya had little nationalism of the country in them except for the
Communist cause ala China.
You must also grow up and get out of the mindset that Communists are
altruistic and driven only by ideology - they also know how to enjoy
themselves although they do not have enough material gains to pass to the
next generation.
You must browse through the archives of the times to reconcile your sense of
fairness - as it is not fair if you take the middle road when the atrocities
were instigated by one side.
Post by truth
Far from it. I only want to find out more of what
you claimed to know.
Let it also be known that there are other accounts of
this emergency. Your perspective is only but a small
window. Harry has given his side of this sad episode
so has Chin Peng. That different sides give different
accounts of the same event is not surprising.
I was and am never a fan of communism. I hate communism
but I also want to be fair to all sides which is why I
give you plenty of chance to pour out your greviences
against the communist insurgency. I will equally give
the same proportion of my ear to the Malayan communist
side of their story.
Post by ardeedee
I think you are hard of understanding .
Not only did I live through the period I also said that I lost one
grandfather to the terrorists and my father was a journalist
specializing
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
that field and that he also attended the Baling talks and hence I can
say
Post by truth
I
Post by ardeedee
have the inside track on the news of that time.
There were thousands of casualties even on the civilian sides and
especially
Post by ardeedee
on the civilian side including many Chinese who either refused to be
extorted or were branded govt people and thereby marked out for
death -
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
simply killing them. Atrocities were committed on a daily basis. You
could
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not travel easily to KL or Ipoh by road without the danger of an
attack
Post by ardeedee
at
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
any time even if the road were guarded heavily.
You are born too late to know what atrocities were committed and for the
first 7-8 years the Communists were winning the war untill Gen.Templer
segregated and fenced out the villages and made them protected areas
from
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
the incursions of the terrorists. This reduced the terrorists demands on
the
Post by ardeedee
villages for food and money etc and thereby they slowly starved. The
villagers also grew more defiant and the war turned against the
terrorists.
Post by ardeedee
If you want to counter my living experience check the stats and
information
Post by ardeedee
of the times and come up with more substantive findings - not your
derision.
Post by ardeedee
Communists ideologically were not committing an offence per se - but
were
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
misguided at best - but those terrorists who were murderers and who
committed atrocities against civilians must pay the penalty like any
other
Post by ardeedee
murderer.
Those willing to face the war crimes tribunals on the atrocities they
committed are welcome to return if they are found innocent.
You have no right to dispute the atrocities of the Emergency expounded
by
Post by truth
me
Post by ardeedee
from first hand experience based on your ignorance - because you are
stupid
Post by ardeedee
and refuse to learn does not mean the atrocities were not committed.
Post by truth
How many innocent people were killed
during the "emergency" ?
Please detail the kind of atrocities that you projected.
You tend to assume too much. Just because you lived
thru the period and someone who don't agree with you
must not have live thru that period and therefore you
must be a more authoritative source of info on the
communist on that period. I don't buy these sort of
reasoning. Full of loopholes.
If they allowed Communist from China to become
Singapore PR, why they don't allowed Singaporean
Communist to come back ?
You still have not been able to show me a good reason
why.
Bringing in all these so called atrocities and comparing
them to terrorist is just your way of fudging the issue.
Post by ardeedee
You obviously are not aware of what the Emergency meant in Malaya
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Singapore then.
As you said the Malayan Communists took their instructions from
China.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Hence
Post by ardeedee
their allegiance was to China and they did not intend to liberate
China
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
the imperialist British but to supplant the British as a colonial
master.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
They did not aim to kill only the selected govt or British targets
but
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
also
Post by ardeedee
targets in civilian populations that could create chaos and economic
destruction and instill fear of obedience - the killing was on a
daily
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
basis
Post by ardeedee
for the best part of the first 7-8 years and each day there was a
situation
Post by ardeedee
report detailing how many casualties and murders took place.
The death toll must run into the thousands - what is the
difference
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
kill
Post by ardeedee
thousands in one blow or to kill the same thousands in several
blows?
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Chin Peng looked healthy and hearty when he attended the Baling
talks
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
suggested he did not suffer same deprivation and ordeals in the
jungles
Post by ardeedee
as
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
his men did - like he was having a good life at the expense of his
fighters.
Post by ardeedee
The present JI Muslim extremists ideals are more noble that they
want
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
have a holy war against the infidels of the West which is basically
altruistic unlike Chin Peng who saw his goal as a
Malayan/Singapore
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
leader
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
harking to the great Chinese Communist leader Mao with all the
trappings
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
of
Post by ardeedee
such a leader.
I lived through the period and saw the Emergency at close quarters
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
inside out and I can tell you that it was not a war of
independence
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
freedom fighters but a guerilla war of attrition designed to further
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
interests of one segment of society by any means possible even if no
one
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
was
Post by ardeedee
standing at the end of it.
Post by truth
That is your opinion which I don't share.
The Malayan communists take their instructions
from Communist China. The violence they
engaged in is very small in comparison to those
engaged by the terrorists today. Moreover they
were also targeted at their real enemies and not
innocent people. Of course in the process
innocent people were still hurt but on a much
smaller scale. The terrorists of today targeted
at the innocent people and killed them by the
thousands. If they have a working A bomb I have
no doubt that they will have not hesitation in using
them.
Post by ardeedee
It is not because they are Communists or were Communists by
idealogy -
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed property
especially
Post by ardeedee
of
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their fight
except
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
made
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not obeyed or are
hindered.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
It is not their ideology that we are against but the fact they
resorted
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
violence and used violence with the most extreme atrocities to
further
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
their
Post by ardeedee
objectives which in the final analysis was just for personal
greed
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
ambition.
Post by truth
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against ex-Singaporean
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former
commu-nists
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30 years
ago.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh,
democracy
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
had
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists
fulfil
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
three
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
conditions - that they make a written declaration renouncing
communism,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree
to
Post by ardeedee
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
interviewed
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
come
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
home
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3 conditions';
ST,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Feb
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
12).
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since
independence,
Post by ardeedee
we
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in
clean,
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
accountable
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is
well-entrenched
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of
government
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
that,
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural
death
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
most
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Berlin
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Wall
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people
everywhere
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not
practicable
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from
Britain
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Austria,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political
parties
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in
Singaporeans
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
by
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them return
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore and
how
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
much
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
we
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will nevertheless
discover
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
how
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let
them
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
find
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
out
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
for
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph over
oppression
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
ardeedee
2004-02-26 02:32:01 UTC
Permalink
Why should murderers and thieves and arsonists spend years in jail when
these Communists terrorists who committed even worse atrocities on a higher
and large scale be allowed to roam with impunity in Singapore without paying
their dues.

Do you think the Communist terrorists were fighting causes of honor rather
than for wealth and material gains ?
Post by truth
Where did I mentioned that the Communist are altruistic. I know only
too well that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
including the communists.
Post by ardeedee
Harry was not in this area at the time - he was in London until late in
the
Post by ardeedee
Emergency when the tide had turned.
Chin Peng is the perpetrator of the war and its atrocities and is
obviously
Post by ardeedee
trying his best to deflect criticism.
Let me be clear and you can read my lips on this - the Communist
terrorists
Post by ardeedee
in Malaya had little nationalism of the country in them except for the
Communist cause ala China.
You must also grow up and get out of the mindset that Communists are
altruistic and driven only by ideology - they also know how to enjoy
themselves although they do not have enough material gains to pass to the
next generation.
You must browse through the archives of the times to reconcile your
sense
Post by truth
of
Post by ardeedee
fairness - as it is not fair if you take the middle road when the
atrocities
Post by ardeedee
were instigated by one side.
Post by truth
Far from it. I only want to find out more of what
you claimed to know.
Let it also be known that there are other accounts of
this emergency. Your perspective is only but a small
window. Harry has given his side of this sad episode
so has Chin Peng. That different sides give different
accounts of the same event is not surprising.
I was and am never a fan of communism. I hate communism
but I also want to be fair to all sides which is why I
give you plenty of chance to pour out your greviences
against the communist insurgency. I will equally give
the same proportion of my ear to the Malayan communist
side of their story.
Post by ardeedee
I think you are hard of understanding .
Not only did I live through the period I also said that I lost one
grandfather to the terrorists and my father was a journalist
specializing
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
that field and that he also attended the Baling talks and hence I can
say
Post by truth
I
Post by ardeedee
have the inside track on the news of that time.
There were thousands of casualties even on the civilian sides and
especially
Post by ardeedee
on the civilian side including many Chinese who either refused to be
extorted or were branded govt people and thereby marked out for
death -
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
simply killing them. Atrocities were committed on a daily basis. You
could
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not travel easily to KL or Ipoh by road without the danger of an
attack
Post by ardeedee
at
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
any time even if the road were guarded heavily.
You are born too late to know what atrocities were committed and for
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
first 7-8 years the Communists were winning the war untill Gen.Templer
segregated and fenced out the villages and made them protected areas
from
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
the incursions of the terrorists. This reduced the terrorists
demands
Post by truth
on
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
villages for food and money etc and thereby they slowly starved. The
villagers also grew more defiant and the war turned against the
terrorists.
Post by ardeedee
If you want to counter my living experience check the stats and
information
Post by ardeedee
of the times and come up with more substantive findings - not your
derision.
Post by ardeedee
Communists ideologically were not committing an offence per se - but
were
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
misguided at best - but those terrorists who were murderers and who
committed atrocities against civilians must pay the penalty like any
other
Post by ardeedee
murderer.
Those willing to face the war crimes tribunals on the atrocities they
committed are welcome to return if they are found innocent.
You have no right to dispute the atrocities of the Emergency expounded
by
Post by truth
me
Post by ardeedee
from first hand experience based on your ignorance - because you are
stupid
Post by ardeedee
and refuse to learn does not mean the atrocities were not committed.
Post by truth
How many innocent people were killed
during the "emergency" ?
Please detail the kind of atrocities that you projected.
You tend to assume too much. Just because you lived
thru the period and someone who don't agree with you
must not have live thru that period and therefore you
must be a more authoritative source of info on the
communist on that period. I don't buy these sort of
reasoning. Full of loopholes.
If they allowed Communist from China to become
Singapore PR, why they don't allowed Singaporean
Communist to come back ?
You still have not been able to show me a good reason
why.
Bringing in all these so called atrocities and comparing
them to terrorist is just your way of fudging the issue.
Post by ardeedee
You obviously are not aware of what the Emergency meant in Malaya
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Singapore then.
As you said the Malayan Communists took their instructions from
China.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Hence
Post by ardeedee
their allegiance was to China and they did not intend to liberate
China
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
the imperialist British but to supplant the British as a colonial
master.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
They did not aim to kill only the selected govt or British targets
but
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
also
Post by ardeedee
targets in civilian populations that could create chaos and
economic
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
destruction and instill fear of obedience - the killing was on a
daily
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
basis
Post by ardeedee
for the best part of the first 7-8 years and each day there was a
situation
Post by ardeedee
report detailing how many casualties and murders took place.
The death toll must run into the thousands - what is the
difference
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
kill
Post by ardeedee
thousands in one blow or to kill the same thousands in several
blows?
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Chin Peng looked healthy and hearty when he attended the Baling
talks
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
suggested he did not suffer same deprivation and ordeals in the
jungles
Post by ardeedee
as
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
his men did - like he was having a good life at the expense of his
fighters.
Post by ardeedee
The present JI Muslim extremists ideals are more noble that they
want
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
have a holy war against the infidels of the West which is
basically
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
altruistic unlike Chin Peng who saw his goal as a
Malayan/Singapore
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
leader
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
harking to the great Chinese Communist leader Mao with all the
trappings
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
of
Post by ardeedee
such a leader.
I lived through the period and saw the Emergency at close quarters
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
inside out and I can tell you that it was not a war of
independence
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
freedom fighters but a guerilla war of attrition designed to
further
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
interests of one segment of society by any means possible even
if
Post by truth
no
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
one
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
was
Post by ardeedee
standing at the end of it.
Post by truth
That is your opinion which I don't share.
The Malayan communists take their instructions
from Communist China. The violence they
engaged in is very small in comparison to those
engaged by the terrorists today. Moreover they
were also targeted at their real enemies and not
innocent people. Of course in the process
innocent people were still hurt but on a much
smaller scale. The terrorists of today targeted
at the innocent people and killed them by the
thousands. If they have a working A bomb I have
no doubt that they will have not hesitation in using
them.
Post by ardeedee
It is not because they are Communists or were Communists by
idealogy -
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed property
especially
Post by ardeedee
of
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their fight
except
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
made
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not obeyed or
are
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
hindered.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
It is not their ideology that we are against but the fact they
resorted
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
violence and used violence with the most extreme atrocities to
further
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
their
Post by ardeedee
objectives which in the final analysis was just for personal
greed
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
ambition.
Post by truth
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against ex-Singaporean
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit former
commu-nists
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30
years
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
ago.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh,
democracy
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
had
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists
fulfil
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
three
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
conditions - that they make a written declaration
renouncing
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
communism,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree
to
Post by ardeedee
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
interviewed
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being allowed
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
come
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
home
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3
conditions';
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
ST,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Feb
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
12).
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since
independence,
Post by ardeedee
we
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in
clean,
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
accountable
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is
well-entrenched
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly educated
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of
government
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
that,
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a natural
death
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
most
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime and
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Berlin
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Wall
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people
everywhere
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not
practicable
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from
Britain
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Austria,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political
parties
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in
Singaporeans
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
by
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them
return
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
how
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
much
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
we
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will
nevertheless
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
discover
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
how
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let
them
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
find
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
out
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
for
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph
over
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
oppression
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
truth
2004-02-27 03:38:38 UTC
Permalink
If there are evidence to link an individual specifically
to a crime they should be charged and jail irregardless
of whether they are non communist, anti communist or
ex communist. But if
there is no proof against them they should be allowed to
come back to Singapore.
The onus of proof is on the Singapore government.
Post by ardeedee
Why should murderers and thieves and arsonists spend years in jail when
these Communists terrorists who committed even worse atrocities on a higher
and large scale be allowed to roam with impunity in Singapore without paying
their dues.
Do you think the Communist terrorists were fighting causes of honor rather
than for wealth and material gains ?
Post by truth
Where did I mentioned that the Communist are altruistic. I know only
too well that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
including the communists.
Post by ardeedee
Harry was not in this area at the time - he was in London until late in
the
Post by ardeedee
Emergency when the tide had turned.
Chin Peng is the perpetrator of the war and its atrocities and is
obviously
Post by ardeedee
trying his best to deflect criticism.
Let me be clear and you can read my lips on this - the Communist
terrorists
Post by ardeedee
in Malaya had little nationalism of the country in them except for the
Communist cause ala China.
You must also grow up and get out of the mindset that Communists are
altruistic and driven only by ideology - they also know how to enjoy
themselves although they do not have enough material gains to pass to
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
next generation.
You must browse through the archives of the times to reconcile your
sense
Post by truth
of
Post by ardeedee
fairness - as it is not fair if you take the middle road when the
atrocities
Post by ardeedee
were instigated by one side.
Post by truth
Far from it. I only want to find out more of what
you claimed to know.
Let it also be known that there are other accounts of
this emergency. Your perspective is only but a small
window. Harry has given his side of this sad episode
so has Chin Peng. That different sides give different
accounts of the same event is not surprising.
I was and am never a fan of communism. I hate communism
but I also want to be fair to all sides which is why I
give you plenty of chance to pour out your greviences
against the communist insurgency. I will equally give
the same proportion of my ear to the Malayan communist
side of their story.
Post by ardeedee
I think you are hard of understanding .
Not only did I live through the period I also said that I lost one
grandfather to the terrorists and my father was a journalist
specializing
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
that field and that he also attended the Baling talks and hence I
can
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
say
Post by truth
I
Post by ardeedee
have the inside track on the news of that time.
There were thousands of casualties even on the civilian sides and
especially
Post by ardeedee
on the civilian side including many Chinese who either refused to be
extorted or were branded govt people and thereby marked out for
death -
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
simply killing them. Atrocities were committed on a daily basis. You
could
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not travel easily to KL or Ipoh by road without the danger of an
attack
Post by ardeedee
at
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
any time even if the road were guarded heavily.
You are born too late to know what atrocities were committed and for
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
first 7-8 years the Communists were winning the war untill
Gen.Templer
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
segregated and fenced out the villages and made them protected areas
from
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
the incursions of the terrorists. This reduced the terrorists
demands
Post by truth
on
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
villages for food and money etc and thereby they slowly starved. The
villagers also grew more defiant and the war turned against the
terrorists.
Post by ardeedee
If you want to counter my living experience check the stats and
information
Post by ardeedee
of the times and come up with more substantive findings - not your
derision.
Post by ardeedee
Communists ideologically were not committing an offence per se - but
were
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
misguided at best - but those terrorists who were murderers and who
committed atrocities against civilians must pay the penalty like
any
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
other
Post by ardeedee
murderer.
Those willing to face the war crimes tribunals on the atrocities
they
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
committed are welcome to return if they are found innocent.
You have no right to dispute the atrocities of the Emergency
expounded
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
me
Post by ardeedee
from first hand experience based on your ignorance - because you are
stupid
Post by ardeedee
and refuse to learn does not mean the atrocities were not committed.
Post by truth
How many innocent people were killed
during the "emergency" ?
Please detail the kind of atrocities that you projected.
You tend to assume too much. Just because you lived
thru the period and someone who don't agree with you
must not have live thru that period and therefore you
must be a more authoritative source of info on the
communist on that period. I don't buy these sort of
reasoning. Full of loopholes.
If they allowed Communist from China to become
Singapore PR, why they don't allowed Singaporean
Communist to come back ?
You still have not been able to show me a good reason
why.
Bringing in all these so called atrocities and comparing
them to terrorist is just your way of fudging the issue.
Post by ardeedee
You obviously are not aware of what the Emergency meant in
Malaya
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Singapore then.
As you said the Malayan Communists took their instructions from
China.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Hence
Post by ardeedee
their allegiance was to China and they did not intend to
liberate
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
China
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
the imperialist British but to supplant the British as a
colonial
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
master.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
They did not aim to kill only the selected govt or British
targets
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
but
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
also
Post by ardeedee
targets in civilian populations that could create chaos and
economic
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
destruction and instill fear of obedience - the killing was on a
daily
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
basis
Post by ardeedee
for the best part of the first 7-8 years and each day there
was
Post by ardeedee
a
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
situation
Post by ardeedee
report detailing how many casualties and murders took place.
The death toll must run into the thousands - what is the
difference
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
kill
Post by ardeedee
thousands in one blow or to kill the same thousands in several
blows?
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Chin Peng looked healthy and hearty when he attended the Baling
talks
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
suggested he did not suffer same deprivation and ordeals in the
jungles
Post by ardeedee
as
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
his men did - like he was having a good life at the expense of
his
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
fighters.
Post by ardeedee
The present JI Muslim extremists ideals are more noble that they
want
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
have a holy war against the infidels of the West which is
basically
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
altruistic unlike Chin Peng who saw his goal as a
Malayan/Singapore
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
leader
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
harking to the great Chinese Communist leader Mao with all the
trappings
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
of
Post by ardeedee
such a leader.
I lived through the period and saw the Emergency at close
quarters
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
inside out and I can tell you that it was not a war of
independence
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
freedom fighters but a guerilla war of attrition designed to
further
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
interests of one segment of society by any means possible even
if
Post by truth
no
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
one
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
was
Post by ardeedee
standing at the end of it.
Post by truth
That is your opinion which I don't share.
The Malayan communists take their instructions
from Communist China. The violence they
engaged in is very small in comparison to those
engaged by the terrorists today. Moreover they
were also targeted at their real enemies and not
innocent people. Of course in the process
innocent people were still hurt but on a much
smaller scale. The terrorists of today targeted
at the innocent people and killed them by the
thousands. If they have a working A bomb I have
no doubt that they will have not hesitation in using
them.
Post by ardeedee
It is not because they are Communists or were Communists by
idealogy -
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed property
especially
Post by ardeedee
of
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their fight
except
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
made
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not obeyed or
are
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
hindered.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
It is not their ideology that we are against but the fact
they
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
resorted
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
violence and used violence with the most extreme
atrocities
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
further
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
their
Post by ardeedee
objectives which in the final analysis was just for personal
greed
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
ambition.
Post by truth
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against ex-Singaporean
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable of!
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit
former
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
commu-nists
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30
years
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
ago.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still fresh,
democracy
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
had
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well educated.
To still insist today, however, that former commu-nists
fulfil
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
three
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
conditions - that they make a written declaration
renouncing
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
communism,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and agree
to
Post by ardeedee
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
interviewed
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being
allowed
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
come
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
home
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3
conditions';
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
ST,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Feb
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
12).
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since
independence,
Post by ardeedee
we
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting in
clean,
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
accountable
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is
well-entrenched
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly
educated
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of
government
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
that,
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a
natural
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
death
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
most
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Berlin
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Wall
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China, people
everywhere
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not
practicable
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from
Britain
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Austria,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as political
parties
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in
Singaporeans
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
by
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them
return
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made Singapore
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
how
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
much
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
we
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will
nevertheless
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
discover
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
how
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs. Let
them
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
find
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
out
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
for
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph
over
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
oppression
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
ardeedee
2004-02-27 13:29:48 UTC
Permalink
You are way off the mark - these ex-communists are not denying they were
part of the terrorism group - so what is there to prove?
Post by truth
If there are evidence to link an individual specifically
to a crime they should be charged and jail irregardless
of whether they are non communist, anti communist or
ex communist. But if
there is no proof against them they should be allowed to
come back to Singapore.
The onus of proof is on the Singapore government.
Post by ardeedee
Why should murderers and thieves and arsonists spend years in jail when
these Communists terrorists who committed even worse atrocities on a
higher
Post by ardeedee
and large scale be allowed to roam with impunity in Singapore without
paying
Post by ardeedee
their dues.
Do you think the Communist terrorists were fighting causes of honor rather
than for wealth and material gains ?
Post by truth
Where did I mentioned that the Communist are altruistic. I know only
too well that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
including the communists.
Post by ardeedee
Harry was not in this area at the time - he was in London until
late
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Emergency when the tide had turned.
Chin Peng is the perpetrator of the war and its atrocities and is
obviously
Post by ardeedee
trying his best to deflect criticism.
Let me be clear and you can read my lips on this - the Communist
terrorists
Post by ardeedee
in Malaya had little nationalism of the country in them except for the
Communist cause ala China.
You must also grow up and get out of the mindset that Communists are
altruistic and driven only by ideology - they also know how to enjoy
themselves although they do not have enough material gains to pass to
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
next generation.
You must browse through the archives of the times to reconcile your
sense
Post by truth
of
Post by ardeedee
fairness - as it is not fair if you take the middle road when the
atrocities
Post by ardeedee
were instigated by one side.
Post by truth
Far from it. I only want to find out more of what
you claimed to know.
Let it also be known that there are other accounts of
this emergency. Your perspective is only but a small
window. Harry has given his side of this sad episode
so has Chin Peng. That different sides give different
accounts of the same event is not surprising.
I was and am never a fan of communism. I hate communism
but I also want to be fair to all sides which is why I
give you plenty of chance to pour out your greviences
against the communist insurgency. I will equally give
the same proportion of my ear to the Malayan communist
side of their story.
Post by ardeedee
I think you are hard of understanding .
Not only did I live through the period I also said that I lost one
grandfather to the terrorists and my father was a journalist
specializing
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
that field and that he also attended the Baling talks and hence I
can
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
say
Post by truth
I
Post by ardeedee
have the inside track on the news of that time.
There were thousands of casualties even on the civilian sides and
especially
Post by ardeedee
on the civilian side including many Chinese who either refused
to
Post by truth
be
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
extorted or were branded govt people and thereby marked out for
death -
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
simply killing them. Atrocities were committed on a daily basis.
You
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
could
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not travel easily to KL or Ipoh by road without the danger of an
attack
Post by ardeedee
at
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
any time even if the road were guarded heavily.
You are born too late to know what atrocities were committed and
for
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
first 7-8 years the Communists were winning the war untill
Gen.Templer
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
segregated and fenced out the villages and made them protected
areas
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
from
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
the incursions of the terrorists. This reduced the terrorists
demands
Post by truth
on
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
villages for food and money etc and thereby they slowly starved.
The
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
villagers also grew more defiant and the war turned against the
terrorists.
Post by ardeedee
If you want to counter my living experience check the stats and
information
Post by ardeedee
of the times and come up with more substantive findings - not your
derision.
Post by ardeedee
Communists ideologically were not committing an offence per se -
but
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
were
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
misguided at best - but those terrorists who were murderers and
who
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
committed atrocities against civilians must pay the penalty like
any
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
other
Post by ardeedee
murderer.
Those willing to face the war crimes tribunals on the atrocities
they
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
committed are welcome to return if they are found innocent.
You have no right to dispute the atrocities of the Emergency
expounded
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
me
Post by ardeedee
from first hand experience based on your ignorance - because you
are
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
stupid
Post by ardeedee
and refuse to learn does not mean the atrocities were not
committed.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
How many innocent people were killed
during the "emergency" ?
Please detail the kind of atrocities that you projected.
You tend to assume too much. Just because you lived
thru the period and someone who don't agree with you
must not have live thru that period and therefore you
must be a more authoritative source of info on the
communist on that period. I don't buy these sort of
reasoning. Full of loopholes.
If they allowed Communist from China to become
Singapore PR, why they don't allowed Singaporean
Communist to come back ?
You still have not been able to show me a good reason
why.
Bringing in all these so called atrocities and comparing
them to terrorist is just your way of fudging the issue.
Post by ardeedee
You obviously are not aware of what the Emergency meant in
Malaya
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Singapore then.
As you said the Malayan Communists took their instructions
from
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
China.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Hence
Post by ardeedee
their allegiance was to China and they did not intend to
liberate
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
China
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
the imperialist British but to supplant the British as a
colonial
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
master.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
They did not aim to kill only the selected govt or British
targets
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
but
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
also
Post by ardeedee
targets in civilian populations that could create chaos and
economic
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
destruction and instill fear of obedience - the killing was
on
Post by truth
a
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
daily
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
basis
Post by ardeedee
for the best part of the first 7-8 years and each day there
was
Post by ardeedee
a
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
situation
Post by ardeedee
report detailing how many casualties and murders took place.
The death toll must run into the thousands - what is the
difference
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
kill
Post by ardeedee
thousands in one blow or to kill the same thousands in several
blows?
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Chin Peng looked healthy and hearty when he attended the
Baling
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
talks
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
suggested he did not suffer same deprivation and ordeals in
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
jungles
Post by ardeedee
as
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
his men did - like he was having a good life at the expense of
his
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
fighters.
Post by ardeedee
The present JI Muslim extremists ideals are more noble that
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
want
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
have a holy war against the infidels of the West which is
basically
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
altruistic unlike Chin Peng who saw his goal as a
Malayan/Singapore
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
leader
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
harking to the great Chinese Communist leader Mao with all the
trappings
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
of
Post by ardeedee
such a leader.
I lived through the period and saw the Emergency at close
quarters
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
inside out and I can tell you that it was not a war of
independence
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
freedom fighters but a guerilla war of attrition designed to
further
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
interests of one segment of society by any means possible even
if
Post by truth
no
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
one
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
was
Post by ardeedee
standing at the end of it.
Post by truth
That is your opinion which I don't share.
The Malayan communists take their instructions
from Communist China. The violence they
engaged in is very small in comparison to those
engaged by the terrorists today. Moreover they
were also targeted at their real enemies and not
innocent people. Of course in the process
innocent people were still hurt but on a much
smaller scale. The terrorists of today targeted
at the innocent people and killed them by the
thousands. If they have a working A bomb I have
no doubt that they will have not hesitation in using
them.
Post by ardeedee
It is not because they are Communists or were Communists
by
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
idealogy -
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed
property
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
especially
Post by ardeedee
of
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their fight
except
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
made
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not
obeyed
Post by truth
or
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
are
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
hindered.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
It is not their ideology that we are against but the fact
they
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
resorted
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
violence and used violence with the most extreme
atrocities
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
further
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
their
Post by ardeedee
objectives which in the final analysis was just for
personal
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
greed
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
ambition.
Post by truth
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against ex-Singaporean
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable
of!
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see that
THE Government's current position on when to permit
former
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
commu-nists
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable 30
years
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
ago.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still
fresh,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
democracy
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
had
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well
educated.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
To still insist today, however, that former
commu-nists
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
fulfil
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
three
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
conditions - that they make a written declaration
renouncing
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
communism,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and
agree
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
interviewed
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being
allowed
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
come
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
home
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3
conditions';
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
ST,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Feb
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
12).
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since
independence,
Post by ardeedee
we
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
clean,
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
accountable
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is
well-entrenched
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly
educated
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of
government
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
that,
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a
natural
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
death
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
most
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet regime
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Berlin
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Wall
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China,
people
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
everywhere
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not
practicable
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from
Britain
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Austria,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as
political
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
parties
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in
Singaporeans
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
by
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let them
return
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made
Singapore
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
how
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
much
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
we
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will
nevertheless
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
discover
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
how
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs.
Let
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
them
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
find
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
out
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
for
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always triumph
over
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
oppression
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
ardeedee1
2004-02-28 01:31:44 UTC
Permalink
ardeedee is too dumb and stinky a minority to be a communist.

ardeedee
ardeedee
2004-02-28 02:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Do you know what a communist is - define?
Post by ardeedee1
ardeedee is too dumb and stinky a minority to be a communist.
ardeedee
truth
2004-02-28 03:14:29 UTC
Permalink
Specific crime can be traced to specific person.
Post by ardeedee
You are way off the mark - these ex-communists are not denying they were
part of the terrorism group - so what is there to prove?
Post by truth
If there are evidence to link an individual specifically
to a crime they should be charged and jail irregardless
of whether they are non communist, anti communist or
ex communist. But if
there is no proof against them they should be allowed to
come back to Singapore.
The onus of proof is on the Singapore government.
Post by ardeedee
Why should murderers and thieves and arsonists spend years in jail when
these Communists terrorists who committed even worse atrocities on a
higher
Post by ardeedee
and large scale be allowed to roam with impunity in Singapore without
paying
Post by ardeedee
their dues.
Do you think the Communist terrorists were fighting causes of honor
rather
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
than for wealth and material gains ?
Post by truth
Where did I mentioned that the Communist are altruistic. I know only
too well that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
including the communists.
Post by ardeedee
Harry was not in this area at the time - he was in London until
late
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Emergency when the tide had turned.
Chin Peng is the perpetrator of the war and its atrocities and is
obviously
Post by ardeedee
trying his best to deflect criticism.
Let me be clear and you can read my lips on this - the Communist
terrorists
Post by ardeedee
in Malaya had little nationalism of the country in them except for
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Communist cause ala China.
You must also grow up and get out of the mindset that Communists are
altruistic and driven only by ideology - they also know how to enjoy
themselves although they do not have enough material gains to
pass
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
next generation.
You must browse through the archives of the times to reconcile your
sense
Post by truth
of
Post by ardeedee
fairness - as it is not fair if you take the middle road when the
atrocities
Post by ardeedee
were instigated by one side.
Post by truth
Far from it. I only want to find out more of what
you claimed to know.
Let it also be known that there are other accounts of
this emergency. Your perspective is only but a small
window. Harry has given his side of this sad episode
so has Chin Peng. That different sides give different
accounts of the same event is not surprising.
I was and am never a fan of communism. I hate communism
but I also want to be fair to all sides which is why I
give you plenty of chance to pour out your greviences
against the communist insurgency. I will equally give
the same proportion of my ear to the Malayan communist
side of their story.
Post by ardeedee
I think you are hard of understanding .
Not only did I live through the period I also said that I lost
one
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
grandfather to the terrorists and my father was a journalist
specializing
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
that field and that he also attended the Baling talks and
hence
Post by ardeedee
I
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
can
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
say
Post by truth
I
Post by ardeedee
have the inside track on the news of that time.
There were thousands of casualties even on the civilian sides
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
especially
Post by ardeedee
on the civilian side including many Chinese who either refused
to
Post by truth
be
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
extorted or were branded govt people and thereby marked out for
death -
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
simply killing them. Atrocities were committed on a daily basis.
You
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
could
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not travel easily to KL or Ipoh by road without the danger of an
attack
Post by ardeedee
at
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
any time even if the road were guarded heavily.
You are born too late to know what atrocities were committed and
for
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
first 7-8 years the Communists were winning the war untill
Gen.Templer
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
segregated and fenced out the villages and made them protected
areas
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
from
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
the incursions of the terrorists. This reduced the terrorists
demands
Post by truth
on
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
villages for food and money etc and thereby they slowly starved.
The
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
villagers also grew more defiant and the war turned against the
terrorists.
Post by ardeedee
If you want to counter my living experience check the stats and
information
Post by ardeedee
of the times and come up with more substantive findings - not
your
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
derision.
Post by ardeedee
Communists ideologically were not committing an offence per se -
but
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
were
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
misguided at best - but those terrorists who were murderers and
who
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
committed atrocities against civilians must pay the penalty
like
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
any
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
other
Post by ardeedee
murderer.
Those willing to face the war crimes tribunals on the atrocities
they
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
committed are welcome to return if they are found innocent.
You have no right to dispute the atrocities of the Emergency
expounded
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
me
Post by ardeedee
from first hand experience based on your ignorance - because you
are
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
stupid
Post by ardeedee
and refuse to learn does not mean the atrocities were not
committed.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
How many innocent people were killed
during the "emergency" ?
Please detail the kind of atrocities that you projected.
You tend to assume too much. Just because you lived
thru the period and someone who don't agree with you
must not have live thru that period and therefore you
must be a more authoritative source of info on the
communist on that period. I don't buy these sort of
reasoning. Full of loopholes.
If they allowed Communist from China to become
Singapore PR, why they don't allowed Singaporean
Communist to come back ?
You still have not been able to show me a good reason
why.
Bringing in all these so called atrocities and comparing
them to terrorist is just your way of fudging the issue.
Post by ardeedee
You obviously are not aware of what the Emergency meant in
Malaya
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Singapore then.
As you said the Malayan Communists took their instructions
from
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
China.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Hence
Post by ardeedee
their allegiance was to China and they did not intend to
liberate
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
China
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
the imperialist British but to supplant the British as a
colonial
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
master.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
They did not aim to kill only the selected govt or British
targets
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
but
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
also
Post by ardeedee
targets in civilian populations that could create chaos and
economic
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
destruction and instill fear of obedience - the killing was
on
Post by truth
a
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
daily
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
basis
Post by ardeedee
for the best part of the first 7-8 years and each day there
was
Post by ardeedee
a
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
situation
Post by ardeedee
report detailing how many casualties and murders took place.
The death toll must run into the thousands - what is the
difference
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
kill
Post by ardeedee
thousands in one blow or to kill the same thousands in
several
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
blows?
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Chin Peng looked healthy and hearty when he attended the
Baling
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
talks
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
suggested he did not suffer same deprivation and ordeals in
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
jungles
Post by ardeedee
as
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
his men did - like he was having a good life at the
expense
Post by ardeedee
of
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
his
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
fighters.
Post by ardeedee
The present JI Muslim extremists ideals are more noble that
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
want
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
have a holy war against the infidels of the West which is
basically
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
altruistic unlike Chin Peng who saw his goal as a
Malayan/Singapore
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
leader
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
harking to the great Chinese Communist leader Mao with all
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
trappings
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
of
Post by ardeedee
such a leader.
I lived through the period and saw the Emergency at close
quarters
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
inside out and I can tell you that it was not a war of
independence
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
freedom fighters but a guerilla war of attrition designed to
further
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
interests of one segment of society by any means possible
even
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
if
Post by truth
no
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
one
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
was
Post by ardeedee
standing at the end of it.
Post by truth
That is your opinion which I don't share.
The Malayan communists take their instructions
from Communist China. The violence they
engaged in is very small in comparison to those
engaged by the terrorists today. Moreover they
were also targeted at their real enemies and not
innocent people. Of course in the process
innocent people were still hurt but on a much
smaller scale. The terrorists of today targeted
at the innocent people and killed them by the
thousands. If they have a working A bomb I have
no doubt that they will have not hesitation in using
them.
Post by ardeedee
It is not because they are Communists or were Communists
by
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
idealogy -
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed
property
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
especially
Post by ardeedee
of
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their fight
except
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
made
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not
obeyed
Post by truth
or
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
are
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
hindered.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
It is not their ideology that we are against but the
fact
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
they
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
resorted
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
violence and used violence with the most extreme
atrocities
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
further
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
their
Post by ardeedee
objectives which in the final analysis was just for
personal
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
greed
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
ambition.
Post by truth
Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against
ex-Singaporean
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
communist which is a shame.
Post by XiaoMei
You never know what these Oppositionists are capable
of!
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see
that
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
THE Government's current position on when to permit
former
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
commu-nists
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
return to Singapore would have been understandable
30
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
years
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
ago.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still
fresh,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
democracy
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
had
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
yet taken root and the population was not well
educated.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
To still insist today, however, that former
commu-nists
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
fulfil
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
three
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
conditions - that they make a written declaration
renouncing
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
communism,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and
agree
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
interviewed
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
by the Internal Security Department - before being
allowed
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
come
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
home
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3
conditions';
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
ST,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Feb
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
12).
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since
independence,
Post by ardeedee
we
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
had
Post by XiaoMei
nearly 40 years of free and fair elections resulting
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
clean,
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
accountable
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and efficient governments. The democratic system is
well-entrenched
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly
educated
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best form of
government
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
that,
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a
natural
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
death
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
most
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet
regime
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Berlin
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Wall
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
and the adoption of capitalist policies in China,
people
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
everywhere
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are not
practicable
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
real
Post by XiaoMei
world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe, from
Britain
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Austria,
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
have
Post by XiaoMei
allowed communists to contest in elections as
political
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
parties
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence in
Singaporeans
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
by
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
allowing
Post by XiaoMei
the communists to come home unconditionally. Let
them
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
return
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
experience,
Post by XiaoMei
first-hand, how successful democracy has made
Singapore
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
how
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
much
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
we
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will
nevertheless
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
discover
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
how
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian beliefs.
Let
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
them
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
find
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
out
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
for
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
themselves that freedom and choice will always
triumph
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
over
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
oppression
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by XiaoMei
dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
ardeedee
2004-02-28 07:43:03 UTC
Permalink
Do not be daft - speak with some substance - how does anyone pinpoint blame
on who actually killed who in an internecine guerrilla war in the jungles of
Malaya - as long as you carried arms you are deemed to be integral to the
organization and any killings done you are deemed as guilty as the one
committing the act.
Post by truth
Specific crime can be traced to specific person.
Post by ardeedee
You are way off the mark - these ex-communists are not denying they were
part of the terrorism group - so what is there to prove?
Post by truth
If there are evidence to link an individual specifically
to a crime they should be charged and jail irregardless
of whether they are non communist, anti communist or
ex communist. But if
there is no proof against them they should be allowed to
come back to Singapore.
The onus of proof is on the Singapore government.
Post by ardeedee
Why should murderers and thieves and arsonists spend years in jail
when
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
these Communists terrorists who committed even worse atrocities on a
higher
Post by ardeedee
and large scale be allowed to roam with impunity in Singapore without
paying
Post by ardeedee
their dues.
Do you think the Communist terrorists were fighting causes of honor
rather
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
than for wealth and material gains ?
Post by truth
Where did I mentioned that the Communist are altruistic. I know only
too well that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
including the communists.
Post by ardeedee
Harry was not in this area at the time - he was in London until
late
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Emergency when the tide had turned.
Chin Peng is the perpetrator of the war and its atrocities and is
obviously
Post by ardeedee
trying his best to deflect criticism.
Let me be clear and you can read my lips on this - the Communist
terrorists
Post by ardeedee
in Malaya had little nationalism of the country in them except for
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Communist cause ala China.
You must also grow up and get out of the mindset that Communists
are
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
altruistic and driven only by ideology - they also know how to
enjoy
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
themselves although they do not have enough material gains to
pass
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
next generation.
You must browse through the archives of the times to reconcile
your
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
sense
Post by truth
of
Post by ardeedee
fairness - as it is not fair if you take the middle road when the
atrocities
Post by ardeedee
were instigated by one side.
Post by truth
Far from it. I only want to find out more of what
you claimed to know.
Let it also be known that there are other accounts of
this emergency. Your perspective is only but a small
window. Harry has given his side of this sad episode
so has Chin Peng. That different sides give different
accounts of the same event is not surprising.
I was and am never a fan of communism. I hate communism
but I also want to be fair to all sides which is why I
give you plenty of chance to pour out your greviences
against the communist insurgency. I will equally give
the same proportion of my ear to the Malayan communist
side of their story.
Post by ardeedee
I think you are hard of understanding .
Not only did I live through the period I also said that I lost
one
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
grandfather to the terrorists and my father was a journalist
specializing
Post by truth
in
Post by ardeedee
that field and that he also attended the Baling talks and
hence
Post by ardeedee
I
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
can
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
say
Post by truth
I
Post by ardeedee
have the inside track on the news of that time.
There were thousands of casualties even on the civilian sides
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
especially
Post by ardeedee
on the civilian side including many Chinese who either refused
to
Post by truth
be
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
extorted or were branded govt people and thereby marked out
for
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
death -
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
simply killing them. Atrocities were committed on a daily
basis.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
You
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
could
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
not travel easily to KL or Ipoh by road without the danger
of
Post by truth
an
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
attack
Post by ardeedee
at
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
any time even if the road were guarded heavily.
You are born too late to know what atrocities were committed
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
for
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
first 7-8 years the Communists were winning the war untill
Gen.Templer
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
segregated and fenced out the villages and made them protected
areas
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
from
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
the incursions of the terrorists. This reduced the terrorists
demands
Post by truth
on
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
villages for food and money etc and thereby they slowly
starved.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
The
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
villagers also grew more defiant and the war turned against
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
terrorists.
Post by ardeedee
If you want to counter my living experience check the stats
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
information
Post by ardeedee
of the times and come up with more substantive findings - not
your
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
derision.
Post by ardeedee
Communists ideologically were not committing an offence per
se -
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
but
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
were
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
misguided at best - but those terrorists who were murderers
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
who
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
committed atrocities against civilians must pay the penalty
like
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
any
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
other
Post by ardeedee
murderer.
Those willing to face the war crimes tribunals on the
atrocities
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
they
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
committed are welcome to return if they are found innocent.
You have no right to dispute the atrocities of the Emergency
expounded
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
me
Post by ardeedee
from first hand experience based on your ignorance - because
you
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
are
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
stupid
Post by ardeedee
and refuse to learn does not mean the atrocities were not
committed.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
How many innocent people were killed
during the "emergency" ?
Please detail the kind of atrocities that you projected.
You tend to assume too much. Just because you lived
thru the period and someone who don't agree with you
must not have live thru that period and therefore you
must be a more authoritative source of info on the
communist on that period. I don't buy these sort of
reasoning. Full of loopholes.
If they allowed Communist from China to become
Singapore PR, why they don't allowed Singaporean
Communist to come back ?
You still have not been able to show me a good reason
why.
Bringing in all these so called atrocities and comparing
them to terrorist is just your way of fudging the issue.
Post by ardeedee
You obviously are not aware of what the Emergency meant in
Malaya
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Singapore then.
As you said the Malayan Communists took their instructions
from
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
China.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Hence
Post by ardeedee
their allegiance was to China and they did not intend to
liberate
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
China
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
the imperialist British but to supplant the British as a
colonial
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
master.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
They did not aim to kill only the selected govt or British
targets
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
but
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
also
Post by ardeedee
targets in civilian populations that could create chaos
and
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
economic
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
destruction and instill fear of obedience - the killing
was
Post by ardeedee
on
Post by truth
a
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
daily
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
basis
Post by ardeedee
for the best part of the first 7-8 years and each day
there
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
was
Post by ardeedee
a
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
situation
Post by ardeedee
report detailing how many casualties and murders took
place.
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
The death toll must run into the thousands - what is the
difference
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
kill
Post by ardeedee
thousands in one blow or to kill the same thousands in
several
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
blows?
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Chin Peng looked healthy and hearty when he attended the
Baling
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
talks
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
suggested he did not suffer same deprivation and ordeals
in
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
jungles
Post by ardeedee
as
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
his men did - like he was having a good life at the
expense
Post by ardeedee
of
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
his
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
fighters.
Post by ardeedee
The present JI Muslim extremists ideals are more noble
that
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
want
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
have a holy war against the infidels of the West which is
basically
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
altruistic unlike Chin Peng who saw his goal as a
Malayan/Singapore
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
leader
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
harking to the great Chinese Communist leader Mao with all
the
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
trappings
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
of
Post by ardeedee
such a leader.
I lived through the period and saw the Emergency at close
quarters
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
and
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
from
Post by ardeedee
inside out and I can tell you that it was not a war of
independence
Post by ardeedee
by
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
freedom fighters but a guerilla war of attrition
designed
Post by truth
to
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
further
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
the
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
interests of one segment of society by any means possible
even
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
if
Post by truth
no
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
one
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
was
Post by ardeedee
standing at the end of it.
Post by truth
That is your opinion which I don't share.
The Malayan communists take their instructions
from Communist China. The violence they
engaged in is very small in comparison to those
engaged by the terrorists today. Moreover they
were also targeted at their real enemies and not
innocent people. Of course in the process
innocent people were still hurt but on a much
smaller scale. The terrorists of today targeted
at the innocent people and killed them by the
thousands. If they have a working A bomb I have
no doubt that they will have not hesitation in using
them.
Post by ardeedee
It is not because they are Communists or were
Communists
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
by
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
idealogy -
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
they
Post by ardeedee
were terrorists who killed and maimed and destroyed
property
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
especially
Post by ardeedee
of
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
innocent citizens who had nothing to do with their
fight
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
except
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
be
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
made
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
examples of how wanton they can be if they are not
obeyed
Post by truth
or
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
are
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
hindered.
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
It is not their ideology that we are against but the
fact
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
they
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
resorted
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
violence and used violence with the most extreme
atrocities
Post by ardeedee
to
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
further
Post by truth
Post by ardeedee
Post by truth
their
Post by ardeedee
objectives which in the final analysis was just for
personal
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greed
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and
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ambition.
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Singaporeans are encourage to invest and visit
communist China. Communist Chinese are allow to
visit Singapore freely and in some cases even
encourage to become PR.
I don't see any reason why these people should
not be allowed to come back to Singapore ?
If the reason is Communism is still a threat to the
security of Singapore, why are Communist Chinese
allowed to become Singapore PR ?
You are actually discriminating against
ex-Singaporean
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communist which is a shame.
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You never know what these Oppositionists are
capable
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of!
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---
Democracy has won - let communists return to see
that
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THE Government's current position on when to
permit
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former
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commu-nists
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to
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return to Singapore would have been
understandable
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30
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years
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ago.
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Memories of the commu-nist insurgency were still
fresh,
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democracy
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had
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not
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yet taken root and the population was not well
educated.
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To still insist today, however, that former
commu-nists
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fulfil
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three
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conditions - that they make a written declaration
renouncing
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communism,
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sever links with the Communist Party of Malaya and
agree
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to
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be
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interviewed
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by the Internal Security Department - before being
allowed
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to
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come
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home
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seems unnecessary ('Plen's men can return, on 3
conditions';
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ST,
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Feb
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12).
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Democracy has come a long way in Singapore. Since
independence,
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we
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have
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had
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nearly 40 years of free and fair elections
resulting
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in
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clean,
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accountable
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and efficient governments. The democratic system
is
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well-entrenched
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and
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trusted by all Singaporeans.
As a people, Singaporeans have also become highly
educated
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and
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well-informed.
Singaporeans know that democracy is the best
form
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of
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government
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and
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that,
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politically, it is the only way forward for us.
Communism, on the other hand, has generally died a
natural
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death
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in
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most
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parts of the world. With the fall of the Soviet
regime
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and
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the
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Berlin
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Wall
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and the adoption of capitalist policies in China,
people
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everywhere
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have
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recognised that the ideals of Marx and Lenin are
not
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practicable
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in
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the
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real
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world.
Moreover, democracies in many parts of Europe,
from
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Britain
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to
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Austria,
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have
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allowed communists to contest in elections as
political
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parties
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and
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they
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have, by and large, been unpopular.
It is time the Government showed more confidence
in
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Singaporeans
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by
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allowing
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the communists to come home unconditionally. Let
them
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return
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to
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experience,
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first-hand, how successful democracy has made
Singapore
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and
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how
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much
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we
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believe in it.
And even if we fail to convince them, they will
nevertheless
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discover
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how
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much Singaporeans reject their totalitarian
beliefs.
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Let
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them
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find
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out
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for
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themselves that freedom and choice will always
triumph
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over
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oppression
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and
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dictatorship.
ELGIN TOH MINGYANG
truth
2004-02-28 15:18:01 UTC
Permalink
To find a group of people guilty of a crime committed
by a few is not right.
Not everybody in the group is aware of everything in the
group.
The best approach in a democratic society is when a crime
is committed, find the culprit and charge him. This is the
fairess and most acceptable solution. Of course
things are done differently in a Communist or dictatorial society.
You also have to remember that the Communist Party of
Malaya struggle also has a racial and political dimension.
You still have not shown to me why Singapore should not
allowed Singaporeans who are member of the CPM back
into Singapore when it allows Communist Chinese to become
PR in Singapore.
If your logic of blaming the whole group is carried to its
absurdity, then members of the CCP should not be allowed
into Singapore as well.
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Do not be daft - speak with some substance - how does anyone pinpoint blame
on who actually killed who in an internecine guerrilla war in the jungles of
Malaya - as long as you carried arms you are deemed to be integral to the
organization and any killings done you are deemed as guilty as the one
committing the act.
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Specific crime can be traced to specific person.
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You are way off the mark - these ex-communists are not denying they were
part of the terrorism group - so what is there to prove?
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If there are evidence to link an individual specifically
to a crime they should be charged and jail irregardless
of whether they are non communist, anti communist or
ex communist. But if
there is no proof against them they should be allowed to
come back to Singapore.
The onus of proof is on the Singapore government.
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Why should murderers and thieves and arsonists spend years in jail
when
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these Communists terrorists who committed even worse atrocities on a
higher
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and large scale be allowed to roam with impunity in Singapore
without
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paying
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their dues.
Do you think the Communist terrorists were fighting causes of honor
rather
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than for wealth and material gains ?
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Where did I mentioned that the Communist are altruistic. I know
only
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too well that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts
absolutely
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including the communists.
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Harry was not in this area at the time - he was in London until
late
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in
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the
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Emergency when the tide had turned.
Chin Peng is the perpetrator of the war and its atrocities and
is
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obviously
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trying his best to deflect criticism.
Let me be clear and you can read my lips on this - the Communist
terrorists
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in Malaya had little nationalism of the country in them except
for
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the
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Communist cause ala China.
You must also grow up and get out of the mindset that Communists
are
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altruistic and driven only by ideology - they also know how to
enjoy
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themselves although they do not have enough material gains to
pass
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to
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the
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next generation.
You must browse through the archives of the times to reconcile
your
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sense
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of
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fairness - as it is not fair if you take the middle road when
the
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atrocities
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were instigated by one side.
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Far from it. I only want to find out more of what
you claimed to know.
Let it also be known that there are other accounts of
this emergency. Your perspective is only but a small
window. Harry has given his side of this sad episode
so has Chin Peng. That different sides give different
accounts of the same event is not surprising.
I was and am never a fan of communism. I hate communism
but I also want to be fair to all sides which is why I
give you plenty of chance to pour out your greviences
against the communist insurgency. I will equally give
the same proportion of my ear to the Malayan communist
side of their story.
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I think you are hard of understanding .
Not only did I live through the period I also said that I
lost
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one
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grandfather to the terrorists and my father was a journalist
specializing
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in
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that field and that he also attended the Baling talks and
hence
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I
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can
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say
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I
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have the inside track on the news of that time.
There were thousands of casualties even on the civilian
sides
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and
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especially
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on the civilian side including many Chinese who either
refused
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to
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be
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extorted or were branded govt people and thereby marked out
for
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death -
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by
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simply killing them. Atrocities were committed on a daily
basis.
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You
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could
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not travel easily to KL or Ipoh by road without the danger
of
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an
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attack
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at
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any time even if the road were guarded heavily.
You are born too late to know what atrocities were committed
and
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for
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the
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first 7-8 years the Communists were winning the war untill
Gen.Templer
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segregated and fenced out the villages and made them
protected
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areas
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from
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the incursions of the terrorists. This reduced the
terrorists