Post by o***@gmail.comPost by jgarbuzDespite their defeat in 1949, the Arabs all refused to make peace. In
the meantime,
over 800,000 Jews came from the Arab countries into Israel. So in
effect, there was a population exchange, as between India and Pakistan.
In addition, hundreds of thousands of holocaust survivors do not have
claim to the properties that were left behind, such as my mother's
ancestral home in Poland. Also, over 12 million ethnic
Germans were pushed out of Poland, Czechoslovakia and other parts of
Eastern Europe at the end of WWII, and they are not permitted back, nor
compensated either. So why didn't the Arab states give the Palestinians
the properties of Jews who left Iraq, Morocco, Egypt, Libya, Yemen and
other parts of the Muslim world?
I'm sure they can claim back their properties if they return and
requested for them. This had not been done.<
Nobody is going back to 1947. That has not been done anywhere. Not
between Pakistan and INdia, nor between Germany and Poland, etc. That
is water under the bridge. The Arabs can give those properties to the
Palestinians, if they so choose.
Post by o***@gmail.comThe Palestinians, having left, are now ready to return, and yet, were
refused their properties and rights as citizens of the land.<
175,000 Arabs chose to stay, and most kept their lands in the Galilee.
Those who left, are gone, and there is no going back to what was, even
if it was as they claimed, which, of course, it wasn't. Jews, including
my own parents, lost their homes MANY TIMES in history. They lost their
homes in Poland. They lost their homes in Spain. They lost their homes
in the Arab countries. My mother would tell me about her town, Boremel
in Poland, and her home there with the storehouses,and the granary that
her first husband owned, etc., etc. But she never cried over the lost
home. She never cried over the lost business. She cried over the murder
of her little son by the Nazi collaborators, and the shooting of her
mother in the ghetto, and the
death of her two brothers who were marched off never to be seen again.
THOSE are the things my cried over for years, her dead flesh and blood,
not over lost homes, or businesses, or land, etc.! And she certainly
would never had taught me to become a suicide bomber to take revenge on
anybody!
Post by o***@gmail.comPost by jgarbuzPost by Ir. Hj. Othman bin AhmadThe Jews are not happy because
they want to insist a majority of more than 95% Jews in their Israel.<
That is not true. In fact, ISrael today is only 78% Jewish and the
Jewish percentage is dropping due to high Arab birthrates inside
Israel.
Post by Ir. Hj. Othman bin AhmadIf the Arabs were allowed to return, it will mean only 70% majority,<
Not true. IN 1948, according to Arab estimates, nearly 800,000 Arabs
left or were pushed out of what became ISrael. The other 600,000 lived
in Jordan, or remained in Israel. There were 1.4 million Arabs who
claimed to be Palestinians in 1948.
Today, there are over 9 million ARabs who claim to be Palestinians in
the world.
Not all wanted to return and most will just want some compensation for
not returning.<
Sorry. Nobody compensated me for my lost family and their home in
Poland that was occupied by others. Nobody compensated us for 1800
years of exile. But, I wouldn't
mind if the US gave the aid it gives to Israel and EGypt and Jordan to
the Palestinians instead, provided they leave and resettle elsewhere in
the Arab world.
None of the 12 million Germans forced out of Poland, Czechoslovakia and
other parts of Eastern Europe were compensated, and had to start over
from scratch in West Germany after WWII. My parents had to start over
from scratch in the US too, after three years in the refugee camp, in
the US in 1949 with no money as well. Thats' the way the cookie
crumbles. War is hell, and life after isn't that much better. Even in
America it wasn't all cookies and cream. It was 7 days a week work for
both of them for years until we started to get back on our feet.
Post by o***@gmail.comThe last I read from Newsweek was only about 200,000.<
Who? There are 9 million Palestiniansin the world, and 1.2 million are
citizens of Israel inside Israel. They do not have to go the army the
way most Israel men have to, and in fact, Christian Arabs are wealthier
than Jews in Israel on average! They can keep a business open without
having to worry about going away to the reserves whenever the army
calls you. An Israeli might have to close up his shop for a month or
more, and lose his business altogether because the army needs him to go
into Gaza! The army doesn't give a shit. Many Arabs in Israel have it
good.
Post by o***@gmail.comPost by jgarbuzToday, Israel is only 78% Jewish. If even one or two million Arabs were
allowed to "return," first of all, most of the shacks or even houses
they once lived in are LONG GONE! Perhaps a third remain, if that. The
It is not the houses that matter but the land value. By normal rules of
justice, these land must be compensated and these houses revalued and
compensated also. Only then will justice be served and peace survive.<
Sure, when America gives all of its land back to the Indians. These
insane dreams will indeed make peace forever impossible, and in the
long run, will only lead to a second Nakba! Israel is not a baby, and
will not be played with like a toy. When the Arabs get real, if and
when that is ever possible, will peace become possible. As long as the
Arabs have impossible dreams and eternal vendettas and grudges, then
war will go on forever.
Post by o***@gmail.comPost by jgarbuzvery idea is insane, and has no historical precedent. In 1920, when
there were only 700,000 Arabs in ALL of Palestine, the League of
Nations gave the Jews the right to "return" to their ancient homeland
and build a new Jewish homeland. But that "right of return" was granted
Of course but not by evicting other natives and inhabitants of the
land.<
That did not happen until 1948, some 30 years after the Balfour
Declaration. And it only happened when the Arabs tried to crush the new
Israeli state. Wars always cause refugees. Best thing is not to start
them in the first place.
Post by o***@gmail.comThe Jews can buy properties just like everybody else.
That was the meaning of the word "return".<
Clearly, you have been totally mislead, like most people. The League of
Nations Mandate issued at San Remo in 1922 (and I suggest that you
download it and read it carefully) clearly stated that all "wastelands"
and former Ottoman state lands were
open to Jewish settlement. In addition, a Jewish Agency could purchase
land from the Arabs to settle them as well. The majority of land in
Palestine in 1922 was wastelands and Ottoman state lands. Private
property, as registered in the Turkish
Land Registry ( the Tabu) was clearly not to be taken away by anyone.
NO PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNED BY ANY ARABS in Palestine was TAKEN to settle
Jews! JEws who settled in Palestine either settled on the
aforementioned wastelands and Ottoman state lands as proscribed in the
Mandate. Unfortunately, many Arab from outside Palestine came in as
well and claimed land for themselves. In 1928, the British tried to
settle the mess, and issued some sort of recogntion of property claims
to some Arabs, but some had actually come after the beginning of the
Mandate.
So the whole issue of property ownership in Palestine was, and remains,
very complex, and includes Turkish land law, British Mandatory law,
and, of course,Israel laws from later on. But, from the outset it was
never the intention of MOST zionists to dispossess anybody. IN 1922
there were 700,000 Arabs in Palestine, and 10 million Jews in the
world. In theory, if 10% of the Jews in the world had come to live in
Palestine, they would have soon outnumbered the Arabs. However, Arab
armed resistance, especially the Muftis gangs, and illegal Arab
immigration, combined with
a high Arab birth rate thanks to the introduction of modern medicine
and Jewish clinics, made it so the Arab population growth continued to
keep pace, and even outstrip expected Jewish immigration, and so the
Arab population soon doubled while the Jewish population grew from
80,000 to only a half million. partially due to the Arab violence in
Palestine, and partially due to Jewish reluctance to come in the
numbers that had been hoped for initially. And, in 1939, Britain cut
down Jewish immigration to placate the Arabs in the face of war, and to
keep Iraqi oil flowing
from Kirkuk to Haifa.
Post by o***@gmail.comPost by jgarbuzby the League of Nations for what was a historical anomaly: a Jewish
nation in exile whose land had been taken by Romans and then Arabs, and
who needed to get their homeland restored to them. But other than the
Jews, no other people have ever been granted a "right of return" by the
League of Nations or the United Nations.
You can always claim the pieces of land that you once inhabited and
developed but not the whole nation.All land must be taxed which means
that land actually belongs to the state for long term occupation but
certainly not forever.
So they can be compesated for the hundreds of years that their land was
compesated from the people who evicted them in the first place, i.e.
the Romans, certainly, not the Arabs.<
The Arabs could have stayed in place, had their leadership not opposed
the League of Nations'[ ruling, which was that the JEws had the right
to resettle and to have autonomy over time. The local Arabs were led by
clerics and nationalists who spread lies about the Jews, and even
instigated massacres in places like Hebron. No one wa against the Arabs
remaining PROVIDED that they did not obstruct Jewish immigration and
the right of the JEws to eventually become the majority and create a
Jewish majority state. The Arabs ultimately got 21 states, but the JEws
also had the right to one tiny state of their own.
Post by o***@gmail.comSo stake your claims if you can.
The Palestinians can certainly stake their claims, i.e. against the
Jewish Israeli government.
Post by jgarbuzPost by Ir. Hj. Othman bin Ahmadsufficient for many nations for the dominant race to govern, but not to
the Apartheid Jews in Israel.
Why can't Jews share resources with the rest of the citizens on
Earth???<
Tell me, are you insane? Israel is merely 8,000 square miles, the size
of the State of New JErsey. Even if you threw in the entire West Bank,
it is only 10,000 square miles. There are already 10 million people
living on 10,000 square miles, over 60%
of which is desert, or 1,000 per square mile. It is as densely
populated as the Netherlands, and the Netherlands isn't half desert.
But there are another 9 million Jews who live outside of Israel, and
who knows if they might not need refuge the way things are going? By
contrast, the Arabs have 22 states covering nearly 3 million square
miles, with much oil reserves. The Arab countries combined have a
density
of about 100 per square mile, or 1/10th that of Israel/Palestine.
And yet the Palestinians and Jews still want to live in
Palestine/Israel.
Why can't the Jews just buy over their rights instead of killing all
Arabs, muslims or non-muslims.<
The Jews had been trying to do that since the 19th century! But, the
Arab gangs murdered Arab landowners who chose to sell their own land to
the Jews!
Post by o***@gmail.comPost by jgarbuzPost by Ir. Hj. Othman bin AhmadLike the rest of the World????
CAn't you get this simple fact into your head, idiot????
Post by Bald eagleWith millions of words and countless actions, the Jews
tried persuading the Palestinians that the Jews have
a right to their land, given to Abrahams by God.
With equal determination, the Palestinian want to drive
the Jews out of their Allah's promised land.
The Jews and the Palestinian are both right....The
same God ( is also called Allah) gave the land to
Adam and Eve, and their 'children' among whom
are the Jews and the Palestinian.<<
Look has nothing to do with God. The League of Nation promised the
Arabs many states, and the JEws a very tiny one. It is the Arabs who
the conquerors and greedy bastards! The fact that the Jews created
something decent in their tiny land makes the Arabs envious.
And they want to be a part of that process, but they were denied that
right to be citizens of a progressive nation.
Instead they were humiliated and killed.<
Nonsense. The Arabs had nothing to do with "progressive" nationhood.
What nonsense. They are still reluctant over it. Whatever the
Palestinians learned about nationhood, they learned from the Israelis.
The grew up close enough to israel to see ISraeli politics and
progress, and they learned a great deal from it. Just not enough.